Tilly Trailer test

mountfarm · May 6, 2021

I’ve been renewing insurances the last couple of days and mentioned Tilly to our insurer who had no idea what it was initially. They have subsequently come back to me with the following:

‘Tilly is not a legally recognised certificate that would assist in any litigation regarding an accident on or off public roads. You are legally obliged to ensure all your equipment is safe to use in all environments and that the operators are fully trained in how to use the equipment in a safe manner. From our investigation Tilly is just a standard checklist that you should be doing anyway yourselves on a daily basis, so having this done by a 3rd party and being charged for it does not remove the need for you to do this before the equipment is used and certainly does not divert any legal obligation onto the company doing the test. In layman terms if a 3rd party Tilly tested on a Monday and you had an accident on the Tuesday which was your fault, then the Tilly test the day before is irrelevant because it’s up to you to check the vehicle on the Tuesday before using it so our advice is save the money and do it yourself on a daily basis. We hope that helps’

Is this another Red Tractor type thing where by farmers are doing all the things they should anyway but paying somebody even though they are doing it themselves?

Matthew Britton · May 6, 2021

I think that’s the gist. It’s another firm who are implying they provide something more than they do. In my humble opinion money for old rope.

Mur Huwcun · May 6, 2021

It’s a business offering a service of servicing a trailer. It’s been well documented on here that they don’t even roller brake them after therefore you can do the same yourself and document it.

betweenthelines · May 6, 2021

You've got written records of the daily safety checks on all road going equipment, of course?

Clive · May 6, 2021

mountfarm said:
I’ve been renewing insurances the last couple of days and mentioned Tilly to our insurer who had no idea what it was initially. They have subsequently come back to me with the following:

‘Tilly is not a legally recognised certificate that would assist in any litigation regarding an accident on or off public roads. You are legally obliged to ensure all your equipment is safe to use in all environments and that the operators are fully trained in how to use the equipment in a safe manner. From our investigation Tilly is just a standard checklist that you should be doing anyway yourselves on a daily basis, so having this done by a 3rd party and being charged for it does not remove the need for you to do this before the equipment is used and certainly does not divert any legal obligation onto the company doing the test. In layman terms if a 3rd party Tilly tested on a Monday and you had an accident on the Tuesday which was your fault, then the Tilly test the day before is irrelevant because it’s up to you to check the vehicle on the Tuesday before using it so our advice is save the money and do it yourself on a daily basis. We hope that helps’

Is this another Red Tractor type thing where by farmers are doing all the things they should anyway but paying somebody even though they are doing it themselves?

i’ve been saying this for ages, waste of time and money, doesn’t even test brakes - NFU were supporting / promoting it a while ago …….. probably on a £ kick back i guess !

We just do daily operator checks when in use and regular brake tests at local hgv test center for £25 a time is the best you can do

we started using Merit gold app (free version) last harvest for daily checks -can highly recommended it

Clive · May 6, 2021

betweenthelines said:
You've got written records of the daily safety checks on all road going equipment, of course?

yes, you would be crazy not to these days !

takes about 2mins to do with the merit app so no big deal really

BuskhillFarm · May 6, 2021

Just another company trying to make a fortune and hoping it becomes a legal requirement where they have the monopoly

Brisel · May 6, 2021

I'll speak up for them. It's evidence of a third party checking over the trailer with the appropriate paper trail. Better than no records at all.

I do believe that a brake test should be done. There's only so much that can be done in the yard.

PSQ · May 6, 2021

Clive said:
we started using Merit gold app (free version) last harvest for daily checks -can highly recommended it

Can you post a link to the app?
It’s not showing up in the Apple App Store, and google only shows results for a bullion company or a brand of cigarettes.
TIA.

Clive · May 6, 2021

PSQ said:
Can you post a link to the app?
It’s not showing up in the Apple App Store, and google only shows results for a bullion company or a brand of cigarettes.
TIA.

App - Merit Inspection Solutions

MeritAgCheck is an innovative new app for recording all vehicle and farm machinery safety checks, servicing, maintenance and compliance documentation

www.meritinspections.co.uk

i use the free version as it does all we need re safety checking

Andrew · May 6, 2021

A Tilly test goes a bit further than daily check, more like an annual service / pre MOT for a HGV trailer.
Carrying on that theme, the roller brake test / decelerometer is more like the annual 'Test', the key to ensuring the trailer is safe and legal.

Machines can pass the Tilly Test if they are all adjusted correctly and working, but if undersized foundation brakes / actuators are fitted, they can still be ILLEGAL on the road as Tilly has no way of assessing this.

snipe · May 6, 2021

mountfarm said:
I’ve been renewing insurances the last couple of days and mentioned Tilly to our insurer who had no idea what it was initially. They have subsequently come back to me with the following:

‘Tilly is not a legally recognised certificate that would assist in any litigation regarding an accident on or off public roads. You are legally obliged to ensure all your equipment is safe to use in all environments and that the operators are fully trained in how to use the equipment in a safe manner. From our investigation Tilly is just a standard checklist that you should be doing anyway yourselves on a daily basis, so having this done by a 3rd party and being charged for it does not remove the need for you to do this before the equipment is used and certainly does not divert any legal obligation onto the company doing the test. In layman terms if a 3rd party Tilly tested on a Monday and you had an accident on the Tuesday which was your fault, then the Tilly test the day before is irrelevant because it’s up to you to check the vehicle on the Tuesday before using it so our advice is save the money and do it yourself on a daily basis. We hope that helps’

Is this another Red Tractor type thing where by farmers are doing all the things they should anyway but paying somebody even though they are doing it themselves?

No different to a loler test for a telescopic handler, which insurance companies insist on. What a load of bollock are industry is confronted with.

Bloders · May 6, 2021

snipe said:
No different to a loler test for a telescopic handler, which insurance companies insist on. What a load of bollock are industry is confronted with.

LOLER is a legal requirement - completely different.

Barleymow · May 6, 2021

Bloders said:
LOLER is a legal requirement - completely different.

But the testers aren't always the best just a box ticking exercise basically

snipe · May 6, 2021

Bloders said:
LOLER is a legal requirement - completely different.

Yes but it’s still only someone coming and having a look over a machine and ticking the boxes, which is the same as the Tilly test. The insurance company said it was pointless as it only lasts for the day it was done. So what I was getting at is both are visual inspections, one is recognised and mandatory and the other is pointless , how can that be.

snarling bee · May 6, 2021

A Tilly Test involves removing wheels and brake drums - do you do that every day?
Any test is only good for the time it was done. If you find something wrong at 7.30 am, was it correct at 23.00 the evening before? So the 7.30 am test the previous day is worthless?
How picky do we have to be?
We just have to demonstrate that we have done all that is reasonably practical.
Could you name the insurance Co?

Robt · May 6, 2021

@snarling bee . I think the insurance company are protecting themselves. They aren’t saying it’s bad , they are only saying they don’t recognise it to give you the policy holder better and cheaper cover of I have read it right? They aren’t saying your insurance is invalid, just they don’t recognise it as adding value ?

Chris W · May 6, 2021

I arranged for Tilly Test to be carried out on our trailers last year. When the local dealer technician turned with a normal daily check sheet and no method of testing the brakes I sent them away. Complete waste of money! IMO, If you are going to bother, then put them on a rolling road, test them and get a piece of paper that will stand up in court if you should need it.

Bloders · May 7, 2021

snipe said:
Yes but it’s still only someone coming and having a look over a machine and ticking the boxes, which is the same as the Tilly test. The insurance company said it was pointless as it only lasts for the day it was done. So what I was getting at is both are visual inspections, one is recognised and mandatory and the other is pointless , how can that be.

not quite.
LOLER has regulatory requirements. Tilly has none (as per the original post)
Im not saying Tilly is good or bad, just highlighting the difference between that, and regulatory requiremnts.
It is very unfortunate that many on here have negative experiences of LOLER inspectors. In other industries, the negative view is not so strongly held, indicating to me its the inspectors of farm kit who let the standad down?

snarling bee · May 7, 2021

To be fully covered legally you probably need to do the following:

Annual full inspection and maintenance, including wheels and drums off to fully inspect the brakes. (which might be a Tilly)
AND annual rolling road brake test (or BAGMA decelerometer check which is a bit iffy IMO)
AND Daily Checklist
AND anything else in the manufacturer's maintenance schedule.
AND document everything.
AND don't use trailers with inadequate 'Agricultural' brakes on any tractor capable of over 20mph/30kph.

Is that the end of the argument?

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