How the hell did we ever win the war?

Lowland1

Member
Mixed Farmer
I think "we" the UK won because the UK picked the right side.
I wonder what would have happened had the UK chosen the other side ? After all a lot of the country's that were allies had been adversary's in previous wars
This cannot be a serious post. Obviously we haven’t always been good people but I don’t think we could have sided with the Germans in either World War even if our royal family is German. I’d hope no one has the same philosophy as Hitler and his gang.
 

Big_D

Member
Location
S W Scotland
This cannot be a serious post. Obviously we haven’t always been good people but I don’t think we could have sided with the Germans in either World War even if our royal family is German. I’d hope no one has the same philosophy as Hitler and his gang.

I don't think it is completely out of the question. Hitler viewed the UK and USA as potential allies and it wasn't until the end of the war that the Allies realised a genocide had been taking place. The soviets were allies of convenience. There were plans in place for a conflict between the UK and the USA pre WW2. The fact we went to war with Germany was largely down to Churchill.
 

Lowland1

Member
Mixed Farmer
I don't think it is completely out of the question. Hitler viewed the UK and USA as potential allies and it wasn't until the end of the war that the Allies realised a genocide had been taking place. The soviets were allies of convenience. There were plans in place for a conflict between the UK and the USA pre WW2. The fact we went to war with Germany was largely down to Churchill.
Hitler might had viewed us as allies but I don't think the British ever had any intention of siding with him. Hitlers two big mistakes were invading Russia and declaring war on the USA after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour as for the Russians it was really a case of my enemy's enemy is my friend.
 

Muck Spreader

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin
I think "we" the UK won because the UK picked the right side.
I wonder what would have happened had the UK chosen the other side ? After all a lot of the country's that were allies had been adversary's in previous wars
Since apparently there are now only 22 countries left in the world that we haven't invaded or fought over, we have a lot of former adversaries. :eek:
 
Since apparently there are now only 22 countries left in the world that we haven't invaded or fought over, we have a lot of former adversaries. :eek:
There are also 54 countries of 2.4 billion people who live in the Commonwealth though. I was reading a facebook post the other day from a history graduate who said that the British Empire was as bad as the Nazis, and I couldn't help thinking "How many countries occupied by the Nazis would be happy living in a Commonwealth of former Nazi occupied nations headed by a German chancellor??
 
Popped over to Woodhall Spa this morning as today marks 78 years since 617 Squadron took off from RAF Scampton to attack the huge dams in the Rhur Valley.
At the top of the large memorial it reads “They died for your freedom”.
As we sat in the sunshine with a coffee and a bite to eat, it felt great to be out after the recent Covid lockdown, so what it felt like for folk once the war ended, I can only imagine.
I for one am eternally grateful to all service personnel, who fought in whichever war, in whatever way, on whoever’s soil, sea or airspace.
View attachment 961361View attachment 961362
l wholeheartedly agree, however l would just amend your last paragraph to "all allied servicemen"
 

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
Hitler might had viewed us as allies but I don't think the British ever had any intention of siding with him. Hitlers two big mistakes were invading Russia and declaring war on the USA after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour as for the Russians it was really a case of my enemy's enemy is my friend.
You must remember that there were many people across the country who had sympathies, in many parts of Europe the Nazis were quick to find friends even after walking over their country.
One of his biggest mistakes was the appalling treatment they handed out in Eastern Europe. Many of those conquered in Russia especially the Ukraine welcomed the invading troops with open arms as liberators from Stalins regime.
However the Nazi’s treated them with extreme cruelty, These were the true victims , if they survived through to the eventual Russian retaking they were then rounded up and many shot, the rest deported to Siberia as traitors
 

Lowland1

Member
Mixed Farmer
You must remember that there were many people across the country who had sympathies, in many parts of Europe the Nazis were quick to find friends even after walking over their country.
One of his biggest mistakes was the appalling treatment they handed out in Eastern Europe. Many of those conquered in Russia especially the Ukraine welcomed the invading troops with open arms as liberators from Stalins regime.
However the Nazi’s treated them with extreme cruelty, These were the true victims , if they survived through to the eventual Russian retaking they were then rounded up and many shot, the rest deported to Siberia as traitors
Obviously Hitler had his supporters in the UK but I don't think many would have been happy to join in the invasion of France etc. The Vichy French were an example of a Quisling state happy to hand over Jews and send workers to Germany and yes the Germans would have been better treating the Ukrainians and the people of the other parts of occupied Russia better as generally they weren't friends of Stalin but Nazi theology wasn't keen of that.
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
This cannot be a serious post. Obviously we haven’t always been good people but I don’t think we could have sided with the Germans in either World War even if our royal family is German. I’d hope no one has the same philosophy as Hitler and his gang.
Yes it can be and is a serious post, a lot of posts have been about the UK's contribution to the war and I think the UK made more contribution than some give credit for, had the UK joined the other side [not that I ever said it would have done] it may still have been on the winning side given the strategic position it occupies not to mention anything else
 

Lowland1

Member
Mixed Farmer
Yes it can be and is a serious post, a lot of posts have been about the UK's contribution to the war and I think the UK made more contribution than some give credit for, had the UK joined the other side [not that I ever said it would have done] it may still have been on the winning side given the strategic position it occupies not to mention anything else
Picking a side sounds a bit like picking a team to support and in the case of the two world wars there would have never been the slightest chance of the UK supporting the Germans
 

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
Picking a side sounds a bit like picking a team to support and in the case of the two world wars there would have never been the slightest chance of the UK supporting the Germans
I like to think you are right, but sadly I think it was a very close run thing. Many on both sides of the political spectrum came under his spell.
If it was not for Churchill I dread to think what may have happened
 

Muck Spreader

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin
I like to think you are right, but sadly I think it was a very close run thing. Many on both sides of the political spectrum came under his spell.
If it was not for Churchill I dread to think what may have happened
I don't personally think there was ever any likelihood that the UK would have ever actively sided with the Nazis. There was however a very real possibility after the fall of France that we would sue for peace (or possibly enforced neutrality) under hopefully less harsh terms than the French.
 

nivilla1982

Member
Livestock Farmer
Different historians have pointed to there been a period between the fall of France and the beginning of the Battle of Britain where morale was that fragile any german offer would have been accepted, however that started to turn very quickly with bombings of the cities etc where the population were prepared to knuckle down in the expectation of eventual victory.
 

SteveHants

Member
Livestock Farmer
This cannot be a serious post. Obviously we haven’t always been good people but I don’t think we could have sided with the Germans in either World War even if our royal family is German. I’d hope no one has the same philosophy as Hitler and his gang.

You are not aware of the appeal of Nazism in our ruling classes? It's quite well documented.

For whatever reason, Churchill didn't trust the Germans - Possibly to do with WW1.

This is a bit sensationalist:
https://www.sbs.com.au/guide/articl...ish-royals-and-their-alleged-nazi-connections
This is a bit simplistic:
https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Anglo-Nazi-Pact/

There's possibly some better analysis in Hobsbawn's "Age of Extremes", but I've not read it for a while.
 

SteveHants

Member
Livestock Farmer
There are also 54 countries of 2.4 billion people who live in the Commonwealth though. I was reading a facebook post the other day from a history graduate who said that the British Empire was as bad as the Nazis, and I couldn't help thinking "How many countries occupied by the Nazis would be happy living in a Commonwealth of former Nazi occupied nations headed by a German chancellor??
The answer to that is that nobody knows.
The Nazi regime barely lasted a decade, the British Empire spanned hundreds of years.
Certainly we practiced ethnic cleansing and have the dubious honour of being one of the only countries to have successfully committed genocide (Tasmania).
 

Lowland1

Member
Mixed Farmer
You are not aware of the appeal of Nazism in our ruling classes? It's quite well documented.

For whatever reason, Churchill didn't trust the Germans - Possibly to do with WW1.

This is a bit sensationalist:
https://www.sbs.com.au/guide/articl...ish-royals-and-their-alleged-nazi-connections
This is a bit simplistic:
https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Anglo-Nazi-Pact/

There's possibly some better analysis in Hobsbawn's "Age of Extremes", but I've not read it for a while.
I am not doubting for a minute that some people did like what that "nice Mr Hitler" had done to get Germany back on its feet but whilst there was a large anti war sentiment amongst the population I don't believe throwing our lot in with the Germans would ever have been particularly popular.
 

SteveHants

Member
Livestock Farmer
I am not doubting for a minute that some people did like what that "nice Mr Hitler" had done to get Germany back on its feet but whilst there was a large anti war sentiment amongst the population I don't believe throwing our lot in with the Germans would ever have been particularly popular.
Have you read the first source? There is some evidence of a plot to overthrow Churchill and install a Nazi friendly government involving the royals.
 

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