£200,000

[@dlm]

I've no doubt he would have been an impressive looking individual on sale day, as are many of the mega-money sheep, including the subject of this thread. However, half of the appearance of these individuals on sale day is down to the management and the fettling that goes on to get them at 100% on the day that matters. What the animal's genetic potential is, is entirely another matter, and I would suggest, is of more importance?

As per normal @neilo right in what he says with so much of appearance down to management building up to sale day to hit it right. Probably the case in most pedigree sales but not all. Real top end price producers can get away with it for years as if they underperform for a few buyers there are plenty of under bidders wanting a part of it next year. However people quick to say every big sheep is down to feed. Found last few years I've gained a few buyers of mules from a competitor. He has quality but would be fed. People do learn occasionally though takes time. But had a friend stop with me last night that saw my sheep sold few weeks back. Helped draw and present them. Saw 40 we rejected that will be sold a week today. He laughed how much I must of fed them. Had half a pound for 3 weeks but on a bit of fresh grass. Many could dismiss these girls as stuffed but is genuinely there genetic potential to perform. Yes a mouthful to sparkle fleece and brighten them costs well under a pound and hopefully gain 5 quid. But potentially shows what prodginy can do with minimal help but great conversion

 

[jamesy]

Meanwhile, at the other end of the spectrum, I have what I would consider my best ever bunch of shearlings (Suffolk) coming up for sale in October & out of a tup bought at Stirling for £400.

 

[shearerlad]

Meanwhile, at the other end of the spectrum, I have what I would consider my best ever bunch of shearlings (Suffolk) coming up for sale in October & out of a tup bought at Stirling for £400.

That must be a great feeling to produce a good pen of sheep from a “cheap” stock tup.

Changing species, a well known local “show calf” producer bought one of his best bulls for 2000gns. First daughter sold was around £4000 at 10 months old

 

[tinsheet]

Just to put a different tweak on this thread not really relevant, but was at Blackmoor Gate (sheep market up on Exmoor), when a rough looking ram lamb came out the ring, balls tail horns, you know the sort very much a hill bred lamb 30 kg max, when an old boy came up to me and said"what did he make" to which I replied "£44.50" he said " good lamb that, he'll work as well" , me being polite "if you like that sort of thing"
To which he replied "I've worked a lot worse" twas a job to keep a straight face

 

[Henarar]

That must be a great feeling to produce a good pen of sheep from a “cheap” stock tup.

Changing species, a well known local “show calf” producer bought one of his best bulls for 2000gns. First daughter sold was around £4000 at 10 months old

I wonder how many farmers best tup or bull they have bought was also the most expensive?

 

[gatepost]

I wonder how many farmers best tup or bull they have bought was also the most expensive?

The dearer they have been ,the worst they have been. ? How ever I will qualify that with, it costs me a lot of money every yr to record, and it's with the help of recording that has put some of my tups at the top of ram compare, so there is a cost/value that has to be paid for by customers, but that's not to say I don't like a bargain myself

 

[Nithsdale]

I've no doubt he would have been an impressive looking individual on sale day, as are many of the mega-money sheep, including the subject of this thread. However, half of the appearance of these individuals on sale day is down to the management and the fettling that goes on to get them at 100% on the day that matters. What the animal's genetic potential is, is entirely another matter, and I would suggest, is of more importance?

Always truth in that... but for all the 'show team' can turn out a good beast for sale - there's feck all they can do about the way a tup stands, walks, the size/shape of his head or the width of his shoulders... Those boys are good but they ain't god!

His progeny maybe wasn't good for various reasons, as @NZDan has eluded to, but IMO he was a very good tup. But ofcourse leaving poor do-ers detracts from him, heavily. We will just have to wait and see how Capaldi does for the Texel breed

 

[The Seeker]

200,000 It looks silly for the industry from an outsiders view.

 

[gatepost]

I'm not justifying it, wealthy men spend their money as they want, I don't understand how a man can be bought and sold for eye watering amounts of money to kick a ball around a field.

 

[Nithsdale]

200,000 It looks silly for the industry from an outsiders view.

1/2 a billion to build an F1 car looks silly from an outsider's point of view...


I'm not long home from Wallets Marts Scotch Mule gimmer sale. It's a bank holiday weekend and the town of Castle Douglas was busy. The market sits almost in the middle of town... nice to see plenty of Joe Public came to the ring to see some sheep sold. Full mouthed stock ewes being chapped down at £94 and then Gimmers running £120-£135 in the main - reality for some who maybe thought we all trade at 200k

 

[westwards]

So has anyone got a link to the rams BVs?

Analysis date:20/07/2019​ EBV​ accuracy​ Eight Week Weight​ 1.56​ 53%​ Mature Size​ 2.14​ 46%​ litter size born​ 0.03​ 39%​ Litter Reared​ 0.04​ 32%​ Maternal Ability​ -0.08​ 50%​ Scan Weight​ 4.36​ 50%​ Muscle Depth​ 0.19​ 51%​ Fat Depth​ -1.20​ 52%​ CT lean​ 0.17​ 39%​ CT fat​ -0.95​ 49%​ CT muscularity​ 0.53​ 15%​ FEC (Combined)​ 0.04​ 3%​ FEC (Strongyles)​ 0.03​ 3%​ FEC (Nematodirus)​ 0.00​ 2%​ Birth Weight​ 0.33​ 46%​ Lambing Ease​ 0.04​ 32%​ CT Eye Muscle Area​ 0.02​ 43%​ Thoracic Len​ 1.32​ 17%​ Thoracic Vert Num​ -0.01​ 16%​ Lumbar Len​ 0.37​ 15%​ Lumbar Vert Num​ -0.01​ 11%​ Total Spine Len​ 2.52​ 16%​ Total Vert Num​ -0.02​ 14%​ Predicted IMF %​ -0.24​ 46%​ Index​ 165.47​ 51%​

 

[7610 super q]

Fine by me, as long as he hasn't got the bare faced cheek, nay audacity, to grumble about the price of straw it's bedded on, or the price of hay it's fed........

 

[neilo]

Analysis date:20/07/2019​ EBV​ accuracy​ Eight Week Weight​ 1.56​ 53%​ Mature Size​ 2.14​ 46%​ litter size born​ 0.03​ 39%​ Litter Reared​ 0.04​ 32%​ Maternal Ability​ -0.08​ 50%​ Scan Weight​ 4.36​ 50%​ Muscle Depth​ 0.19​ 51%​ Fat Depth​ -1.20​ 52%​ CT lean​ 0.17​ 39%​ CT fat​ -0.95​ 49%​ CT muscularity​ 0.53​ 15%​ FEC (Combined)​ 0.04​ 3%​ FEC (Strongyles)​ 0.03​ 3%​ FEC (Nematodirus)​ 0.00​ 2%​ Birth Weight​ 0.33​ 46%​ Lambing Ease​ 0.04​ 32%​ CT Eye Muscle Area​ 0.02​ 43%​ Thoracic Len​ 1.32​ 17%​ Thoracic Vert Num​ -0.01​ 16%​ Lumbar Len​ 0.37​ 15%​ Lumbar Vert Num​ -0.01​ 11%​ Total Spine Len​ 2.52​ 16%​ Total Vert Num​ -0.02​ 14%​ Predicted IMF %​ -0.24​ 46%​ Index​ 165.47​ 51%​

Looking at the accuracy figures, I would guess they’re just estimated from the pedigree, with no recording done (so practically meaningless). He could perform much better, or much worse, than that, not that I expect it to matters to the £8k gang.

 

[Woolless]

Analysis date:20/07/2019​ EBV​ accuracy​ Eight Week Weight​ 1.56​ 53%​ Mature Size​ 2.14​ 46%​ litter size born​ 0.03​ 39%​ Litter Reared​ 0.04​ 32%​ Maternal Ability​ -0.08​ 50%​ Scan Weight​ 4.36​ 50%​ Muscle Depth​ 0.19​ 51%​ Fat Depth​ -1.20​ 52%​ CT lean​ 0.17​ 39%​ CT fat​ -0.95​ 49%​ CT muscularity​ 0.53​ 15%​ FEC (Combined)​ 0.04​ 3%​ FEC (Strongyles)​ 0.03​ 3%​ FEC (Nematodirus)​ 0.00​ 2%​ Birth Weight​ 0.33​ 46%​ Lambing Ease​ 0.04​ 32%​ CT Eye Muscle Area​ 0.02​ 43%​ Thoracic Len​ 1.32​ 17%​ Thoracic Vert Num​ -0.01​ 16%​ Lumbar Len​ 0.37​ 15%​ Lumbar Vert Num​ -0.01​ 11%​ Total Spine Len​ 2.52​ 16%​ Total Vert Num​ -0.02​ 14%​ Predicted IMF %​ -0.24​ 46%​ Index​ 165.47​ 51%​

Interesting. According to the 2019 Signet breed benchmark, he's in the top 50% for terminal index but some way from even reaching top 25%. Lowish accuracies suggest that he wasn't recorded himself and those values come from his relatives in recorded flocks.

As we thought, he wasn't bought for his EBVs!

 

[Northeastfarmer]

Fine by me, as long as he hasn't got the bare faced cheek, nay audacity, to grumble about the price of straw it's bedded on, or the price of hay it's fed........

He won’t be grumbling this year...you can’t give it away

 

[Ysgythan]

Maybe @Ysgythan can give us some insight on why this particular lamb was sought after? He gave a decent explanation of the record price given for Vicious Sid. I'm willing to bet it wasn't on account of his trait-leading EBVs.

It would be interesting to have a trial with this lamb and a decent commercial tup with a top 10% index bred with mule ewes.

They put a video up on Facebook just before the sale of this young lamb. The guy with the camera was pretty much lying on the floor with a dog. The lamb approaches the dog rears his head flashes the eye and stamps his foot.

That triggered the hype.

I saw one of the buyers in a funeral a few weeks ago. He was saying how the breed needed to avoid these short necked low headed lambs that got the throat and how breeders needed to concentrate on tops and ends. Presumably he thinks this lamb ticks those boxes.

For me he was a good lamb. Bit narrow over the top and lacking depth, not enough daylight under him, but this made him look very long. Two powerful syndicates clashed. Plenty of lambs 280 not sold. That’s an open market for you.

 

[michael N123]

Heard an old quote'If you havent ruined a couple of sheep breeds your not a proper breeder!!Border leicesters were ruined by breeding for roman nose and pointy up ears and suffolks ruined by going for massive bone and big heads!must be some truth in the saying.

Worst part about Leicester’s is they love to drop dead

 

[michael N123]

I wonder how many farmers best tup or bull they have bought was also the most expensive?

Mine was out my grandads fat pen

 

[glensman]

They put a video up on Facebook just before the sale of this young lamb. The guy with the camera was pretty much lying on the floor with a dog. The lamb approaches the dog rears his head flashes the eye and stamps his foot.

That triggered the hype.

I saw one of the buyers in a funeral a few weeks ago. He was saying how the breed needed to avoid these short necked low headed lambs that got the throat and how breeders needed to concentrate on tops and ends. Presumably he thinks this lamb ticks those boxes.

For me he was a good lamb. Bit narrow over the top and lacking depth, not enough daylight under him, but this made him look very long. Two powerful syndicates clashed. Plenty of lambs 280 not sold. That’s an open market for you.

Tops and ends..... what new fangled madness is this!

 

[neilo]

They put a video up on Facebook just before the sale of this young lamb. The guy with the camera was pretty much lying on the floor with a dog. The lamb approaches the dog rears his head flashes the eye and stamps his foot.

That triggered the hype.

I don’t have many Charollais tups that won’t do that. Took a few attempts getting one loaded into someone’s trailer last week.?