A blueprint for a profitable suckler herd.

[Sir loin]

I haven't got one unfortunately but thought we could throw our ideas into this thread and see if we could come up with a plan.
I will start with a closed herd or as near as possible breeding own replacements and buying bulls of a known health status. I have run a closed herd totally as cows are pure lims and only buy semen in to breed replacements and stock bulls. Buying in BVD or Johnes disease will crucify any profit margin that you may make.

 

[Samcowman]

This should be interesting.
For me cross bred herd
reducing costs of housing period as much as possible whether by reducing housing period or finding cheaper ways of housing.
Rotational grazing.
Record everything and question everything especially those things that cost you.

 

[Downtrodden Dad]

This should be interesting.
For me cross bred herd
reducing costs of housing period as much as possible whether by reducing housing period or finding cheaper ways of housing.
Rotational grazing.
Record everything and question everything especially those things that cost you.

I'm looking forward to everyone becoming vegan then I don't have to keep the bloody things. Seriously though I think the only way to make a decent margin is if you can keep them outside for most of the time.

 

[Sir loin]

I have been guilty when running a closed herd of letting my cows get too old, at present cows are coming to within £200 pounds of a finished heifer so no excuse now.

 

[Tim W]

Outside all year
Well drained land
Electric fencing
300 cows/man (minimum)
Small , feed efficient cows
Low input labour wise = no hangers on (treat for anything inc. foot trimming = cull)
Wean and sell according to market at time

 

[Al R]

Outside all year
Well drained land
Electric fencing
300 cows/man (minimum)
Small , feed efficient cows
Low input labour wise = no hangers on (treat for anything inc. foot trimming = cull)
Wean and sell according to market at time

Hereford and Angus size ideally i’d say (there are others too) when you look at the maths involved compared to big continentals there’s a lot going for the smaller breeds.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Keep animal size down to what your land can support, is a great start.
(Unless you are in an irrigated desert region, this will be considerably south of 850kg!)

Farm for the environment, first.

Force the herd to adapt to it and sell/cull what doesn't fit - like, yesterday!
You may trade at a loss, but keeping her will practically guarantee it.

Polish your grazing system, work on recording that, as much as your cattle, and use the feedback loop to improve your methods - no recipe anywhere guarantees success, but good grazing is where it begins.

Question every single cost, ask yourself if "convenience" really justifies it.

"Infrastucture is really just expenditure, wearing a different hat"
ie seldom does infrastructure automatically lead to better profitability - 7 acres of concrete, roofs, and umpteen machines - if it's sitting there, you'll want to use it.
You'll then need to fix and replace it.
So that's into the "dubious asset" category, often you'd make more money just trading more cattle.

Cattle just like fresh pasture, the more often the better, it's all they ever really needed.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Hereford and Angus size ideally i’d say (there are others too) when you look at the maths involved compared to big continentals there’s a lot going for the smaller breeds.

This.

Say you feed a cow 3% of her bodyweight per day, maintaining a 700kg cow will use 21kgDM per day.

You could feed a kiwicross dairy cow that amount at peak lactation, and she'd probably still be gaining BCS, while making enough milk to feed several calves.
This type of cow will be a much more resilient platform for a suckler cow than something that puts herself first 364 days a year.
Gain BCS all summer, lose it all winter, calve in the spring or autumn depending on climate. By far the simplest and cheapest way to store feed is on the back of the cow.

Keep the size smaller by making them work?

 

[SteveHants]

Outside all year
Well drained land
Electric fencing
300 cows/man (minimum)
Small , feed efficient cows
Low input labour wise = no hangers on (treat for anything inc. foot trimming = cull)
Wean and sell according to market at time

There's an Irish report somewhere that I'll try and dig out but to add:
Stocking density should be as high as possible, and to do that, grazing should all be as efficient as possible (no set stocking, grazing behind electric)
Genetics: Good use made of heterosis (calves to be three way cross)

 

[Werzle]

Its easy, all you need is a cow that lives on fresh air and produces a calf that weighs 380-420kg at 9 mths old also from living on fresh air and both most be immune from tb.

 

[Northeastfarmer]

A rise in the beef price should make us more profitable
No good cutting everything to the bone if processors are hell bent on finishing us off

 

[Henarar]

Think "what would happen if I didn't do that" rather than "I need to do that" before you do/buy stuff that costs

 

[Old Tip]

First thing get rid of the Limmys, look at any other beef producing country outside Europe and they all use old British genetics with a bit of something else thrown in depending on climate. Cattle should fatten on grass and or cheap by products. As @Kiwi Pete says all the concrete, buildings and machinery is what kills the job, plus the labour requirements. this entails.
Plus Boris and Rees Mogg will ban the use of anything European so change quickly before it’s too late

 

[S J H]

A rise in the beef price should make us more profitable
No good cutting everything to the bone if processors are hell bent on finishing us off

I think everything should be cut to the bone anyway, a low price does make people think on were they can save money.

 

[Henarar]

First thing get rid of the Limmys, look at any other beef producing country outside Europe and they all use old British genetics with a bit of something else thrown in depending on climate. Cattle should fatten on grass and or cheap by products. As @Kiwi Pete says all the concrete, buildings and machinery is what kills the job, plus the labour requirements. this entails.
Plus Boris and Rees Mogg will ban the use of anything European so change quickly before it’s too late

this is why we have good old fashioned British Blues

 

[Northeastfarmer]

I think everything should be cut to the bone anyway, a low price does make people think on were they can save money.

Everything is cut to the bone

 

[Kiwi Pete]

First thing get rid of the Limmys, look at any other beef producing country outside Europe and they all use old British genetics with a bit of something else thrown in depending on climate. Cattle should fatten on grass and or cheap by products. As @Kiwi Pete says all the concrete, buildings and machinery is what kills the job, plus the labour requirements. this entails.
Plus Boris and Rees Mogg will ban the use of anything European so change quickly before it’s too late

It can make the job an awful lot nicer, but IMHO it's a real trap to believe that it's an intrinsic part of producing beef commercially.
All you really need are lighter animals in the wetter parts of the year, much more frequent movements, and raise their stocking density so they maintain their own pasture properly.

Back to basics - what did cattle actually do before we came along?
They walked, and they grazed.... mimic that almost constant movement of a herd at work and you soon have an easy job.
Park them up, and it's an expensive and laborious one!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Everything is cut to the bone

Relatively speaking?

 

[spin cycle]

keep a micro herd....spend more time direct selling the meat than rearing
or
get a job and have a few as a hobby
or (based on whats been said)
find somewhere where grass grows year round...yet ground remains dry enough to outwinter......good luck with finding that in uk

 

[JP1]

I haven't got one unfortunately but thought we could throw our ideas into this thread and see if we could come up with a plan.
I will start with a closed herd or as near as possible breeding own replacements and buying bulls of a known health status. I have run a closed herd totally as cows are pure lims and only buy semen in to breed replacements and stock bulls. Buying in BVD or Johnes disease will crucify any profit margin that you may make.

Agreed on the health. Then try finding them

Sell My Livestock or at the market. Many good potential prospects “No health status” . It’s expensive and takes some effort and therefore hardly anyone does it

Then folks moan if a health plan reviewed by your vet is on your Red Tractor check list