BPS value and rent

B'o'B

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Rutland
I know of a few Simplified Schemes submitted in 2020 - and agreements received. These put several hectares into arable options paying £500 - 600 hectare - this will be in addition to BPS. The arable guys on here will know. AB15, AB1, AB8 and AB9 popular. And so somewhere the Government is going to have to get the money to pay Simplified Schemes in 2021, 22 etc from the BPS. What I do not know is if the combined sum of these schemes exceeds what Defra had budgeted. But in my little patch of South Lincs I note quite a bit more uptake for Jan 2021 start.
The advisor I spoke with had learned of an estate who’s scheme application was worth over £1mill p.a. and said he was aware of a number of other pretty meaty applications going in as well. He hypothesized that the only place this money would be likely to come from would be the BPS pot as they wouldn’t want it to come out from the mid or higher tier stewardship pots as that is the direction ‘they’ are trying to push us.
 
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redsloe

Member
Location
Cornwall
My Landlord has served us notice of a rent review.

I struggle to see how they could want more, with basic payment going.
We were issued our third one in a row this autumn because once they issue it and don't review the rent they have to reissue it the following year I believe. I think they're as uncertain about the future as I am. I can't see them reviewing it this year either.
I just can't see any justification for a rent increase. Wheat price rise, that's about it. Of course you have to have the wheat to sell after 2019's autumn. What kind of bullsh*t reasons are people hearing from landlords' agents for a rise?
See above!
 

midlandslad

Member
Location
Midlands
There is no doubt that rents will be dropping, it is in black and white in the policy.

What will be difficult is implementing these reductions as agents won’t be that keen on reducing rents willingly both because it looks bad and most of the time their income is based on a percentage of the rent. Rents drop their income drops!
 

redsloe

Member
Location
Cornwall
The advisor I spoke with had learned of an estate who’s scheme application was worth over £1mill p.a. and said he was aware of a number of other pretty meaty applications going in as well. He hypothesized that the only place this money would be likely to come from would be the BPS pot as they wouldn’t want it to come out from the mid or higher tier stewardship pots as that is the direction ‘they’ are trying to push us.
I thought mid tier applications were not guaranteed to be accepted. There is a term for it but can't remember atm! If it's too big or more like too many capital grants and they can throw it out.
 

B'o'B

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Rutland
I thought mid tier applications were not guaranteed to be accepted. There is a term for it but can't remember atm! If it's too big or more like too many capital grants and they can throw it out.
Indeed they are competitive (or should, be but there hadn’t been sufficient uptake before to use up all the pot of money, but that might not be the case this year).

But the simplified schemes are not competitive and were introduced due to lack of uptake of the other stewardship schemes, once they have absorbed any of the leftover funding from the competitive schemes, where will the extra money come from?

If they fund the simplified schemes out of the stewardship pot they reduce the number of people getting into stewardship which they don’t want to do, so most likely source is BPS, as I can’t see it being from an increase in overall funding budget.
 

redsloe

Member
Location
Cornwall
Indeed they are competitive (or should, be but there hadn’t been sufficient uptake before to use up all the pot of money, but that might not be the case this year).

But the simplified schemes are not competitive and were introduced due to lack of uptake of the other stewardship schemes, once they have absorbed any of the leftover funding from the competitive schemes, where will the extra money come from?

If they fund the simplified schemes out of the stewardship pot they reduce the number of people getting into stewardship which they don’t want to do, so most likely source is BPS, as I can’t see it being from an increase in overall funding budget.
Well, I admit I don't know all the schemes.
But, can't be a simplified one if your example is worth 1m surely?
We did the 'simple' ELS scheme years ago, wouldn't get fat on that. Didn't know there was still that sort of option!

Went straight for mid tier.
 

B'o'B

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Rutland
Well, I admit I don't know all the schemes.
But, can't be a simplified one if your example is worth 1m surely?
We did the 'simple' ELS scheme years ago, wouldn't get fat on that. Didn't know there was still that sort of option!

Went straight for mid tier.
Just as an example as I have no idea what they put in for but just using arable options:

100Ha AB1 = £53,900pa
200Ha AB9 = £128,000pa
100t AB12 = £63,200pa
1500Ha AB15 = £783,000pa

1800Ha out of production but £1,028,100 income per year for the next 5 years with. 200ha game covers and being paid to feed wild birds (or maybe pheasants.....). Guaranteed to get into the scheme and government backed income stream. If you’re a big estate and like shooting, you could see the attraction surely?
 
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redsloe

Member
Location
Cornwall
I follow you, but that's mid tier as I understand it so should be competitive.
Admittedly the capital works part (if they have any) will have more weight going against you.
 

4course

Member
Location
north yorks
Just as an example as I have no idea what they put in for but just using arable options:

100Ha AB1 = £53,900pa
200Ha AB9 = £128,000pa
100t AB12 = £63,200pa
1500Ha AB15 = £783,000pa

1800Ha out of production but £1,028,100 income per year for the next 5 years with. 200ha game covers and being paid to feed wild birds (or maybe pheasants.....). Guaranteed to get into the scheme and government backed income stream. If you’re a big estate and like shooting, you could see the attraction surely?
At an average of£231/acre cant see us on tenanted land taking it up but I like the idea of feeding birds in the winter so long as I could use home produced grains at £632 / t
we have some very hungry birds!!
 

Brisel

Member
NFFN Member
Location
North Yorkshire
You'll need some small seeds in the mix too. We bought in from a merchant who charged a small fortune, knowing what we were getting from CS. To be fair, you could buy straights and mix it yourself for a lot less than an off-the-shelf tailor made mix.

Screenshot 2020-11-18 at 14.49.37.png

AB12 prescription
 

B'o'B

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Rutland
At an average of£231/acre cant see us on tenanted land taking it up but I like the idea of feeding birds in the winter so long as I could use home produced grains at £632 / t
we have some very hungry birds!!
It would beat our average from linseed over the last few years!! :cry::cry:
And could leave a better net margin than the last year we tried to grow rape. :cry::cry::cry:
What about this years sugar beet net margin for some/many growers? :cry:😭😭😭😭

I'm using Mid-tier to try and fill a growing hole in the rotation - the reliable break crop! And to some extent to kick the re-investment tin-can down the road a bit more, until I have some kind of steer as to which direction I need to head with the farm!

It won't be right for everyone, and I did put together a business case for not signing up to Mid-tier, but it just seemed more risky and with not that dramatically bigger rewards for the extra effort involved. Time will tell if it really is/was right for us, but given the weather of the last few years I'm happy to play it safe for a while!
 

Chalky

Member
There are limits in size to a lot of these options-at least on Mid Tier I believe-and as mentioned they are costly to do. The legume fallow option is the most interesting-but in our application we had to have more stubbles as we were lacking seeds rather than nectar type options to get the proportions in kilter. TBH the extended overwintered stubble with no option to put in a summer green crop is typical of RPA encouraging bad farming. The birds will have exhausted any seed long before the 1st August date the stubble can be touched.

Higher Tier is done in targeted areas eg South Downs and broad brush on decent paying options is a goer.
 

Brisel

Member
NFFN Member
Location
North Yorkshire
Higher Tier requires Scheduled Monuments, SSSIs, AONBs, National Parks, ESAs etc. We got a dedicated Natural England advisor helping us with our application in 2017. Unfortunately the options she insisted on to protect SMs and SSSIs cost us far more than they earned, diluting the net income from arable options I took. We did get a lot of capital works approved, including a contribution to 3 miles of water piping.
 

4course

Member
Location
north yorks
You'll need some small seeds in the mix too. We bought in from a merchant who charged a small fortune, knowing what we were getting from CS. To be fair, you could buy straights and mix it yourself for a lot less than an off-the-shelf tailor made mix.

View attachment 921698
AB12 prescription
ah well thats that idea gone !!!! seriously ,I cant see us bothering,if I was older and knackered without followers might use the schemes as a retirement hobby but as im in the flush of youth in my mid sixties reckon in its present form its a nogo
 

silverfox

Member
Location
Shropshire
There are limits in size to a lot of these options-at least on Mid Tier I believe-and as mentioned they are costly to do. The legume fallow option is the most interesting-but in our application we had to have more stubbles as we were lacking seeds rather than nectar type options to get the proportions in kilter. TBH the extended overwintered stubble with no option to put in a summer green crop is typical of RPA encouraging bad farming. The birds will have exhausted any seed long before the 1st August date the stubble can be touched.

Higher Tier is done in targeted areas eg South Downs and broad brush on decent paying options is a goer.
I’ve never understood the thinking, that on one hand is almost evangelical about cover crops and always having a growing crop to aid soil health, and the option of being paid to overwinter or enhanced stubble.
 

Hindsight

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
Just as an example as I have no idea what they put in for but just using arable options:

100Ha AB1 = £53,900pa
200Ha AB9 = £128,000pa
100t AB12 = £63,200pa
1500Ha AB15 = £783,000pa

1800Ha out of production but £1,028,100 income per year for the next 5 years with. 200ha game covers and being paid to feed wild birds (or maybe pheasants.....). Guaranteed to get into the scheme and government backed income stream. If you’re a big estate and like shooting, you could see the attraction surely?

And get the BPS on top until it is phased out. Good going
 

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