Does the hill shepherd get a fair share of the pie?

[Hilly]

I do concede a little sympathy for the hill shepherd whose business and lifestyle is propped up by the taxpayer, and when they have such a good life to lose I understand why they get so defensive about it , but the reality is that life is much harder for an awful lot of people in this country.

I accept some subs, but tbh I view them as money for nothing. We don't make much money out of our flock, but don't spend much time on them either, so although the hourly rate is low I'm happy to earn it doing something I enjoy.

I really think that subsidy has pretty much destroyed the industry. It distorts all true values.

I agree with you.

 

[Hilly]

Ffs
Who isnt subsidised today?

Aye it’s pathetic isn’t it, all propping up the mo eh printing.

 

[glasshouse]

Most small businesses, although I concede it is rapidly becoming the culture of our country to not do anything at all unless there's a grant or funding available.

Small businesses benefit massively from govt cash

 

[Hilly]

Small businesses benefit massively from govt cash

We used to be a nation built on small bussiness now we are a nation of proping them up how far we have came .

 

[Guleesh]

Small businesses benefit massively from govt cash

Some do, We have the HIE -highlands and islands enterprise, which allocates taxpayers money for businesses to be setup (sometimes in opposition to existing ventures) after a few years these businesses tend to fold, as they were never profitable in the first place, and if they were they would likely already exist.

 

[Nithsdale]

I just assumed someone had “accidentally” crossed a Kerry Hill with a traditional BFL too get the Crossing types.....

Discuss

It was a Teeswater to get the face shape and colourings

Often debated a Mule tup was used, but I don't believe that would be stable enough to consistently produce that type

The Crossing BFL is totally different to the Traditional. Anyone who says they are the same is blind.

 

[glasshouse]

It was a Teeswater to get the face shape and colourings

View attachment 947333


Often debated a Mule tup was used, but I don't believe that would be stable enough to consistently produce that type

The Crossing BFL is totally different to the Traditional. Anyone who says they are the same is blind.

Hippy sheep
They look like jethro tull or black sabbath

 

[glasshouse]

Some do, We have the HIE -highlands and islands enterprise, which allocates taxpayers money for businesses to be setup (sometimes in opposition to existing ventures) after a few years these businesses tend to fold, as they were never profitable in the first place, and if they were they would likely already exist.

Look at the money fencers and tree planters are making right now due to forestry subs

 

[Hilly]

Look at the money fencers and tree planters are making right now due to forestry subs

Aye great job that , was my old mans first job he described it as white slavery which is all forestry is now bit different but no better .

 

[Guleesh]

Look at the money fencers and tree planters are making right now due to forestry subs

They supply the demand for labour. They work hard for there money, what does it matter where it came from?

 

[unlacedgecko]

Can you explain why you think this?

Many at either end of mule production cycle reliant on subs, by which I mean flocks and ewe lamb buyers. Many mule ewe lambs bought to graze parkland/grass on arable estates in order to claim BPS. I’ve often seen it here that it’s easier for an estate to break even gimmering mule ewe lambs than spend £15/ac topping.

Without subs does indoor lambing stack up? Mule is a big hungry sheep that takes some feeding. Weight of weaned lambs as a percentage of ewe live weight? Bear in mind a ewe is only working 7 months a year (5 month gestation and 8 weeks lactating), but needs keeping 12 months.

Increased economic pressure on sheep meat production is raising awareness of iceberg diseases. The end of stratification of U.K. sheep industry? Producing a mule ewe lambs has the byproducts of a hill wether and a mule wether. A self replacing maternal flock will only produce 1 wether per ewe lamb.

I‘m also a big believer in adaptive genetics. Any mule breeders culling ewe lambs for bad feet or internal parasite resistance? Any performance recorded mule producers? From what I’ve seen, mules are bred for pretty faces, and anything with 2 holes under its tail is a breeder.

 

[glasshouse]

They supply the demand for labour. They work hard for there money, what does it matter where it came from?

Sure does
No sub= no job
And they can charge what they like

 

[Guleesh]

Sure does
No sub= no job
And they can charge what they like

They can charge what they like because they have no real competition.

If it was worthwhile and profitable to make investment in forestry, then entrepreneurs would risk their own wealth doing so. The jobs would be provided and tax revenue could be collected.

 

[Nithsdale]

Many at either end of mule production cycle reliant on subs, by which I mean flocks and ewe lamb buyers. Many mule ewe lambs bought to graze parkland/grass on arable estates in order to claim BPS. I’ve often seen it here that it’s easier for an estate to break even gimmering mule ewe lambs than spend £15/ac topping.

Without subs does indoor lambing stack up? Mule is a big hungry sheep that takes some feeding. Weight of weaned lambs as a percentage of ewe live weight? Bear in mind a ewe is only working 7 months a year (5 month gestation and 8 weeks lactating), but needs keeping 12 months.

Increased economic pressure on sheep meat production is raising awareness of iceberg diseases. The end of stratification of U.K. sheep industry? Producing a mule ewe lambs has the byproducts of a hill wether and a mule wether. A self replacing maternal flock will only produce 1 wether per ewe lamb.

I‘m also a big believer in adaptive genetics. Any mule breeders culling ewe lambs for bad feet or internal parasite resistance? Any performance recorded mule producers? From what I’ve seen, mules are bred for pretty faces, and anything with 2 holes under its tail is a breeder.

I've a ewe with only 1 hole under her tail


She's scanned in lamb, and she's survived 2 previous lambings... so who needs 2 holes?

 

[LTH]

Many at either end of mule production cycle reliant on subs, by which I mean flocks and ewe lamb buyers. Many mule ewe lambs bought to graze parkland/grass on arable estates in order to claim BPS. I’ve often seen it here that it’s easier for an estate to break even gimmering mule ewe lambs than spend £15/ac topping.

Without subs does indoor lambing stack up? Mule is a big hungry sheep that takes some feeding. Weight of weaned lambs as a percentage of ewe live weight? Bear in mind a ewe is only working 7 months a year (5 month gestation and 8 weeks lactating), but needs keeping 12 months.

Increased economic pressure on sheep meat production is raising awareness of iceberg diseases. The end of stratification of U.K. sheep industry? Producing a mule ewe lambs has the byproducts of a hill wether and a mule wether. A self replacing maternal flock will only produce 1 wether per ewe lamb.

I‘m also a big believer in adaptive genetics. Any mule breeders culling ewe lambs for bad feet or internal parasite resistance? Any performance recorded mule producers? From what I’ve seen, mules are bred for pretty faces, and anything with 2 holes under its tail is a breeder.

We lamb all our mules outside except triplets whatever the weather, there are breeders of swale, mule and Leicesters although mainly traditional breeders, performance recording sheep, no where near enough though. Mule weathers are not a by product when selecting tups you have to bare in mind half are weathers so we always choose Leicesters with good confirmation and the lambs grade well. The swale weather shouldn’t be either and I think more breeders should be joining the performance recording scheme to improve this. I agree progress needs to be made to lower costs like any breed, but not sure why people are writing the breed off. Because the Leicester is so genetically different to any other breed it means whatever you cross with you get the best out of hybrid vigor, which leads to better traits and a longer lasting animal.

 

[LTH]

I've a ewe with only 1 hole under her tail


She's scanned in lamb, and she's survived 2 previous lambings... so who needs 2 holes?

We had one like that managed to lamb quads

 

[unlacedgecko]

I've a ewe with only 1 hole under her tail


She's scanned in lamb, and she's survived 2 previous lambings... so who needs 2 holes?

I’ve seen a few over the years. I always cull them in my own flock.

 

[unlacedgecko]

We lamb all our mules outside except triplets whatever the weather, there are breeders of swale, mule and Leicesters although mainly traditional breeders, performance recording sheep, no where near enough though. Mule weathers are not a by product when selecting tups you have to bare in mind half are weathers so we always choose Leicesters with good confirmation and the lambs grade well. The swale weather shouldn’t be either and I think more breeders should be joining the performance recording scheme to improve this. I agree progress needs to be made to lower costs like any breed, but not sure why people are writing the breed off. Because the Leicester is so genetically different to any other breed it means whatever you cross with you get the best out of hybrid vigor, which leads to better traits and a longer lasting animal.

If it works for you, it works for you. But mule market share has been falling for decades. I see loss of subs accelerating this.

 

[Nithsdale]

I’ve seen a few over the years. I always cull them in my own flock.

I only found her in January. So she's obviously gotten on with things herself upto now and it's caused no issues.

If I'd seen it when I drew her as a lamb, she would have went cull

 

[unlacedgecko]

I only found her in January. So she's obviously gotten on with things herself upto now and it's caused no issues.

If I'd seen it when I drew her as a lamb, she would have went cull

Bought a batch of broker draft ewes warranted in the bag. Shearers found 2 wethers when pre lamb shearing. 1 was dog food that night (wouldn’t stay in the pen), the other one turned out with a big red W on each side. And never seen again