Emlid Reach RS+

[steveR]

Got some Grant money to spend and am pondering one of the alternatives at the cheaper end of the business, to my original choice of a Fieldbee L1 Base and Rover. Any suggestions on the keenest priced Reach RS+ units available here in the UK, possibly sourced from EU?

I was rather surprised to find only a modest saving between buying direct from HK in US$ and a UK dealer... £640 v £650

 

[Northern farmer]

Does it make sense to purchase any single band receivers these days. Emlid has the RS2 which is somewhat more expensive but you can purchase two simpleRTK2B kits and a lot of beer at the price of a single RS+ and these are multi-constellation multi-frequency devices. Not exactly apples-to-apples comparison though. I believe RS+ has an integrated tilt sensor, not sure about heading sensors.

 

[steveR]

Does it make sense to purchase any single band receivers these days. Emlid has the RS2 which is somewhat more expensive but you can purchase two simpleRTK2B kits and a lot of beer at the price of a single RS+ and these are multi-constellation multi-frequency devices. Not exactly apples-to-apples comparison though. I believe RS+ has an integrated tilt sensor, not sure about heading sensors.

In my case, although I am more than happy to have a play and experiment with the RTK2B kits you indicate, in this case I need a proven piece of working kit, from a VAT Registered trader.

Yes, I totally agree on L2 being a preferable setup, but it is the cost factor... I reckon for my needs (spraying and fert applications) an L1 Base and Rover will suffice. Accuracy around 2cm the biggest hassle is slow startup. Reach or Fieldbee will be around £1500 all in.

I would like to go for a Reach RS2 and use NTRIP, but I would still need a Base, as there are to the best of my knowledge, no RTK casters in the area. This need to have two units pushes cost to over £3.5 Grand. Not happening...

 

[Robt]

Is that not how grant money works? Surely you apply for a grant and specify a system. You get approved, you buy said system, send in paid invoice then claim money. You don’t get free money then decide what to buy?

 

[Northern farmer]

In my case, although I am more than happy to have a play and experiment with the RTK2B kits you indicate, in this case I need a proven piece of working kit, from a VAT Registered trader.

Yes, I totally agree on L2 being a preferable setup, but it is the cost factor... I reckon for my needs (spraying and fert applications) an L1 Base and Rover will suffice. Accuracy around 2cm the biggest hassle is slow startup. Reach or Fieldbee will be around £1500 all in.

I would like to go for a Reach RS2 and use NTRIP, but I would still need a Base, as there are to the best of my knowledge, no RTK casters in the area. This need to have two units pushes cost to over £3.5 Grand. Not happening...

I understand RS2 and a commercial base would be a lot of money, too much for many of us. But I don't understand how you find £1500 acceptable (I guess minus the grant, how much would be left for you to pay?) while at about 550 Euros you would get both the base and the rover, both dual constellation dual frequency devices. Approximately the same accuracy as RS+ but faster fix and works many times further away from the base (the starter kit includes a medium range radio, NTRIP would give the full base range).

I assume you would get a better performing system at less money and no paperwork.

My intention is not to advertise Ardusimple products. There are similar products from other companies at a similar price level.

 

[Northern farmer]

Is that not how grant money works? Surely you apply for a grant and specify a system. You get approved, you buy said system, send in paid invoice then claim money. You don’t get free money then decide what to buy?

Thanks Robt for the reminder. However I don't think steveR was planning to apply for one system and purchase a different (cheaper one).

I was neither assuming different products but saving money without the grant hassle.

EDIT: I actually should not have commented anything about the grant since I'm not familiar with the details.

 

[e3120]

Is that not how grant money works? Surely you apply for a grant and specify a system. You get approved, you buy said system, send in paid invoice then claim money. You don’t get free money then decide what to buy?

When applying for the countryside productivity grant, it's for a spec, not a quote. If accepted, it's up to the applicant to find the most suitable (Inc £) system for their needs that at least meets the spec. Grant payment is a fixed amount.

Not a bad system, as it gives the applicant flexibility and encourages the rejection of grant-inflated quotes.

 

[steveR]

When applying for the countryside productivity grant, it's for a spec, not a quote. If accepted, it's up to the applicant to find the most suitable (Inc £) system for their needs that at least meets the spec. Grant payment is a fixed amount.

Not a bad system, as it gives the applicant flexibility and encourages the rejection of grant-inflated quotes.

Mine is STEPS grant but essentially the same process.

 

[steveR]

I understand RS2 and a commercial base would be a lot of money, too much for many of us. But I don't understand how you find £1500 acceptable (I guess minus the grant, how much would be left for you to pay?) while at about 550 Euros you would get both the base and the rover, both dual constellation dual frequency devices. Approximately the same accuracy as RS+ but faster fix and works many times further away from the base (the starter kit includes a medium range radio, NTRIP would give the full base range).

I assume you would get a better performing system at less money and no paperwork.

My intention is not to advertise Ardusimple products. There are similar products from other companies at a similar price level.

Thanks for the info.

TBH, I would go for a cheap and cheerful system as you describe and pay fir it myself and enjoy doing something different, as long as it is not requiring huge levels of geekiness and setting up to make it all work...

Have you got a link to the Ardusimple kit please?



Later... Had a look at the Ardusimple kit. Totally DIY build and in all honesty, beyond me... Unless someone out there is building systems up for sale?

 

[Northern farmer]

Perhaps I got your plans wrong. The point is that Reach RS+ is "just a GNSS receiver" as is the simpleRTK2B. Reach has a box around the board, the RTK2B board would like to have one (DIY build involved).

Fieldbee is different, it also has an app for steering guidance. Don't know if their app would work with other receivers. It is not clear where you come from at the moment, perhaps you already have a screen that just needs a higher accuracy receiver where RS+ equally to Fieldbee or ardusimple are options?

The simpleRTK2B kit comes preconfigured, no DIY involved to make the base and rover work except the box (likely for both). The same app that RS+ would use should work with RTK2B too.

In any case the ardusimple approach does involve some overall DIY work while others are limited to setting up all parameters right. Some personal experience or a friend helping with the setup would be ideal even if their support site is orders of magnitude more helpful than the support from major brands.

 

[Camilla]

@steveR late to the party but wondering if you got any further on this? Looking at a similar system and curious how yours has panned out!

 

[steveR]

@steveR late to the party but wondering if you got any further on this? Looking at a similar system and curious how yours has panned out!e

I have been meaning to sketch out an update, @Camilla but matters have been a bit slow moving over the past fortnight...

I took delivery of a Reach RS2 in the end. I did give serious consideration to having a system built for me as offered by one of the inhabitants here as I liked the idea of having all the guts of the system safe in a machine, with the antenna out on the fresh air. However, in the end I went for the all -in-one device with a SIM card built-in simplicity for NTRIP. LoRa can be an option in the future if necessary, but I question why in all honesty, at least for my need.

The RS2 was relatively easy to setup, which again was one of the appeals to me. I had the details of an RTK base that I have been very kindly offered access to, and this was the first thing to setup while in the house using the wifi, again pretty simple to do using the android Reach app on tablet and phone.

I have signed up to a mobile SIM with an outfit called 1p. Based on the calcs done on here a few weeks back, it'll suit nicely. Again, it was doddle to setup with the Reach app.

Then is was deciding which of several guidance apps to try/use. I have been using Field Navigator (FN) for a couple or 3 years and like it. I have also got a Trial version of Fieldbee which is limited a bit. Initially, I used Mock GPS to bluetooth the the corrected data to the Tablet which works very well by spoofing the android device to avoid using the inaccurate internal GPS. I then sorted out how to bluetooth the NMEA data for FN. Fieldbee will not allow this unless I pay the subs, although there is a 2 week trial of the full version I will use next week!!

I have a pair of tablet/phone mounts in the tractors for playing and deciding how I want the system to work for me. To mount the the Reach, I first made a bracket and used a 5/8" SS bolt kindly donated by @PJ Walker @ RTK Farming for testing, but I was unhappy at having to keep unscrewing the unit on an off on a regular basis, so I found a HD Mag mount from a UK company for 40 quid and modified the brackets on the two tractors with a 75mm steel disc to take the mag mount. I did get some rubber shock absorbers to use, but the cab mounts seem to be doing an excellent job at damping out vibes.

First time out last week doing some fert applications, the accuracy improvement made driving to the mark so much easier, as the signal was not drifting in and out and affecting positioning performance. NTRIP worked really well, and the Reach worked as Hotspot too, so I had access to Google Maps I found using Mock GPS easier to use in some ways, but that is because I've been using it for a couple of years!!

Now looking for a budget steering wheel setup!! I see Fieldbee have ramped their prices up :-(

 

[Camilla]

Thanks for the detailed update!

What made you go with the RS2 over the + in the end? When I spoke to Emlid they seemed to think that the + would be more than ample for our needs. We're looking at buying 2 as a base and rover which seems like it would be more cost-effective than subscribing to the signal which adds on a fair chunk as an annual cost.

Interesting you're looking at steering wheel setup as well. For now all we need is a guidance app to follow since we have a JD autosteer setup but that is getting rather old and temperamental so might look to replace it in the not too distant future.

 

[Badshot]

I have been meaning to sketch out an update, but matters have been a bit slow moving over the past fortnight...

I took delivery of a Reach RS2 in the end. I did give serious consideration to having a system built for me as offered by one of the inhabitants here as I liked the idea of having all the guts of the system safe in a machine, with the antenna out on the fresh air. However, in the end I went for the all -in-one device with a SIM card built-in simplicity for NTRIP. LoRa can be an option in the future if necessary, but I question why in all honesty, at least for my need.

The RS2 was relatively easy to setup, which again was one of the appeals to me. I had the details of an RTK base that I have been very kindly offered access to, and this was the first thing to setup while in the house using the wifi, again pretty simple to do using the android Reach app on tablet and phone.

I have signed up to a mobile SIM with an outfit called 1p. Based on the calcs done on here a few weeks back, it'll suit nicely. Again, it was doddle to setup with the Reach app.

Then is was deciding which of several guidance apps to try/use. I have been using Field Navigator (FN) for a couple or 3 years and like it. I have also got a Trial version of Fieldbee which is limited a bit. Initially, I used Mock GPS to bluetooth the the corrected data to the Tablet which works very well by spoofing the android device to avoid using the inaccurate internal GPS. I then sorted out how to bluetooth the NMEA data for FN. Fieldbee will not allow this unless I pay the subs, although there is a 2 week trial of the full version I will use next week!!

I have a pair of tablet/phone mounts in the tractors for playing and deciding how I want the system to work for me. To mount the the Reach, I first made a bracket and used a 5/8" SS bolt kindly donated by @PJ Walker @ RTK Farming for testing, but I was unhappy at having to keep unscrewing the unit on an off on a regular basis, so I found a HD Mag mount from a UK company for 40 quid and modified the brackets on the two tractors with a 75mm steel disc to take the mag mount. I did get some rubber shock absorbers to use, bur the cab mounts seem to be doing an excellent job

First time out last week doing some fert applications, the accuracy improvement made driving to the mark so much easier, as the signal was not drifting in and out and affecting position performance. NTRIP worked really well. I found using Mock GPS easier to use in some ways, but that is because I've been using it for a couple of years!!

Now looking for a budget steering wheel setup!! I see Fieldbee have ramped their prices up :-(

The John Deere steering motor is pretty cheap at about £600.
Probably be something in it to stop it working with anything except JD screen though.

 

[steveR]

Thanks for the detailed update!

What made you go with the RS2 over the + in the end? When I spoke to Emlid they seemed to think that the + would be more than ample for our needs. We're looking at buying 2 as a base and rover which seems like it would be more cost-effective than subscribing to the signal which adds on a fair chunk as an annual cost.

Interesting you're looking at steering wheel setup as well. For now all we need is a guidance app to follow since we have a JD autosteer setup but that is getting rather old and temperamental so might look to replace it in the not too distant future.

RS2 is ..... just bloody nice! Not cheap, but good kit often isn't. A 50% grant will ease the pain for me!

I full agree that if you are using LoRa then your call may well be the correct one. If you can access a free RTK base as is common on the Continent or another alternative, the NTRIP makes sense and for my low demand need, this is fine. If I was going to be doing a big area or moving around a lot then maybe a LoRa setup, but to be honest based on what I have leaned here, I'd be more likely to setup my my own Base and still use NTRIP if the need was there.

Fieldbee L1 base and rover is a more modest cost setup....?

Paying for an RTK base signal with a big company is horrendous money. There are lower cost options about though.

I don't really need auto steering... at all, just fancy the idea to be honest... I will NOT be paying 5K for one though...

 

[steveR]

The John Deere steering motor is pretty cheap at about £600.
Probably be something in it to stop it working with anything except JD screen though.

There are one or two setups for retro fitting that are not locked to a screen/tractor etc

One of our Aussie compatriots alluded to one, but I haven't found it as yet. The Americans have a few too to choose from.

I was intrigued when a (I assume) Chinese person popped up in TFF, as for sure, they will have something in the pipeline at an eBay price!!

 

[steveR]

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[adam_farming]

Just to jump in on this. Are you guys talking about setting up a lightbar guided system using off the shelf type GPS equipment rather than for example just buying a Trimble/JD Greenstar type system? Does it work out a lot cheaper? I see the Emlid is a receiver, what do you use as a display?

 

[Camilla]

Just to jump in on this. Are you guys talking about setting up a lightbar guided system using off the shelf type GPS equipment rather than for example just buying a Trimble/JD Greenstar type system? Does it work out a lot cheaper? I see the Emlid is a receiver, what do you use as a display?

Yes, the setup is you buy a GPS/RTK receivers like the Emlid we're discussing then the screen is a tablet which you run a navigation app (eg Fieldbee) on.

 

[Camilla]

There are one or two setups for retro fitting that are not locked to a screen/tractor etc

One of our Aussie compatriots alluded to one, but I haven't found it as yet. The Americans have a few too to choose from.

I was intrigued when a (I assume) Chinese person popped up in TFF, as for sure, they will have something in the pipeline at an eBay price!!

Interesting... My understanding was that the JD steering unit will only work with other JD gear.

If I'm mistaken that would be excellent news as then we could keep it and swap in a better screen and navigation setup without having to pay over the odds for the JD one.