Farming & Conservation

[wanton dwarf]

But how ? I tried to pooh pooh some of the nonsense on Chris Packham's FB page a while back, pointing out farmers good deeds. Even posted a pic of a barn owl. Not one like. Not one comment. He ( and many others ) seem to have the power to brainwash folks.
It's like trying to educate pork.

I don't think these people are even interested in being educated.

They have an agenda and they just want to seek the power to implement that agenda.

I recently read some comments in "The Guardian" concerning the tactics the Labour Party had taken over the past decade+ which amounts to "The Tory Party is evil". The idea being to demonise the Conservatives to the extent that nobody would even consider them reasonable - a thought which I note Theresa May adopted in part.

The agenda here is NOT to be reasonable, NOT to be educated and NOT to accept certain facts. In other words beligerance and domination.

The only way you are going to counter Chris Packham is to lessen his voice .. which basically means getting rid of the BBC.

 

[Muddyroads]

You raise an important point - control of corvids etc.. There are now nowhere near as many gamekeepers as there were even forty years ago, and they - often over-zealously - kept numbers down significantly, as well as badgers and foxes, all of which meant that wild ground-nesting birds and small birds were being protected as well as the horrible pheasants.

What we see with current corvid numbers is probably nearer a natural norm than when small bird numbers started being recorded during highly-keepered times - and that would have lead to an inaccurate and subsequently unattainable datum...

I’ve said this for some time. Gamekeepers should be added to the countryside’s endangered list.
Farmers are frequently being blamed for the demise in small songbirds, yet so many people talk about how they love to see birds of prey such as sparrow hawks. Whilst I love to see birds of prey out and about, they can only survive at the detriment of the small birds.

 

[wanton dwarf]

Go look at https://magic.defra.gov.uk/ and find your nearest NVZ, it will have the test results

They are though; maybe its because we move in different circles but at every level, people on the street, charities, businesses, local government to national government Net Zero is a big deal

So I'm in a NVZ and the local SSSI has a Phosphate problem. The EA & Rivers Authority are lecturing farmers about their use of pesticides and some are jumping all over themselves to "Help".

But the fact is the SSSI river is polluted at source from Phosphates leached into the groundwater - it comes through an ex coal mine which has also been on fire.

None of the farmers know in the area. Do you think the "Testing" is going to tell the farmers the EA already know the ground water is polluted even before it reaches the surface ?

No. They aren't interested in telling the truth because that doesn't fit the agenda.

 

[Formatted]

No. They aren't interested in telling the truth because that doesn't fit the agenda

Are you not just saying this because it fits your agenda to say that you aren't part of the problem?

 

[wanton dwarf]

Are you not just saying this because it fits your agenda to say that you aren't part of the problem?

What problem ? That's just ignoring the fact the EA have it in writing in their own reports that the ground water is polluted ..

 

[wanton dwarf]

They are though; maybe its because we move in different circles but at every level, people on the street, charities, businesses, local government to national government Net Zero is a big deal

IF Carbon emissions are a problem.

Then why are imports not on the Carbon emissions of the UK ? Every industry that HMG gets rid of puts more and more Carbon emissions into other countries .. but magically takes off those emissions from the UK.

This is beyond deluded .. it's totally contradictory to the actual so called problem.

India recently spent £Billions openiing 32 coal mines ..

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[wanton dwarf]

I’ve said this for some time. Gamekeepers should be added to the countryside’s endangered list.
Farmers are frequently being blamed for the demise in small songbirds, yet so many people talk about how they love to see birds of prey such as sparrow hawks. Whilst I love to see birds of prey out and about, they can only survive at the detriment of the small birds.

Hasn't anyone noticed that the era that HMG and others harp back to re bird numbers - 1970s - had lots of gamekeepers.

How can anyone expect to have pre 1970 wildlife when those that were keeping the land no longer exist ? and are indeed demonised for what they did.

 

[Muddyroads]

The thing is that modern farm has damaged the environment, you just need to look at our skies on a summers day and the number of swifts and swallows it half what it was 10 years ago, and that is largely down to reduced insect populations. Our rivers are filled with pesticides and nitrates from poor spray, fertilizer and manure application management. The government has to legislate so farmers cannot cut hedges during nesting season otherwise they would! etc

We do need to do more, there are many farmers who do good, you might be one of them but farmers who burn plastic at weekends, prop up fences with wooden pallets and tie gates up with barded wire need a serious talking to and your message will be better received by the public if you come forward with a bit of supplication. I am not a fan of the NFU, but they are embracing the Net Zero message which the public are into right now whilst at the same time defending farmers.

What’s wrong with tying up a gate with barbed wire?

 

[HolzKopf]

I’ve said this for some time. Gamekeepers should be added to the countryside’s endangered list.
Farmers are frequently being blamed for the demise in small songbirds, yet so many people talk about how they love to see birds of prey such as sparrow hawks. Whilst I love to see birds of prey out and about, they can only survive at the detriment of the small birds.

I have two full time keepers that I count as friends. Apart from shoot days, both live simply with their families and below the radar. Both get in hot water from time to time for policing their manors against, stray walkers with stray dogs, nighttime traveller type visitors and daytime flytippers let alone those that live in the country and don't have 'rural' in their vocabulary.

Read an edition or two of The Field or the Shooting Times - you'll soon see why most keepers are ex-directory and tick every box they can when 'no publicity' is a choice. In any area that borders a town or large village that has a commuting station to London, being a keeper I reckon is a sh*t job now.

 

[wanton dwarf]

The thing is that modern farm has damaged the environment, you just need to look at our skies on a summers day and the number of swifts and swallows it half what it was 10 years ago, and that is largely down to reduced insect populations. Our rivers are filled with pesticides and nitrates from poor spray, fertilizer and manure application management. The government has to legislate so farmers cannot cut hedges during nesting season otherwise they would! etc

We do need to do more, there are many farmers who do good, you might be one of them but farmers who burn plastic at weekends, prop up fences with wooden pallets and tie gates up with barded wire need a serious talking to and your message will be better received by the public if you come forward with a bit of supplication. I am not a fan of the NFU, but they are embracing the Net Zero message which the public are into right now whilst at the same time defending farmers.

Oh so it's got nothing to do with millions of birds being killed in the mediterranian and north africa ?

 

[wanton dwarf]

We do need to do more, there are many farmers who do good, you might be one of them but farmers who burn plastic at weekends, prop up fences with wooden pallets and tie gates up with barded wire need a serious talking to and your message will be better received by the public if you come forward with a bit of supplication. I am not a fan of the NFU, but they are embracing the Net Zero message which the public are into right now whilst at the same time defending farmers.

Definately not.

When I see Boris & Carrie spending £100,000s on lavish Number 10 furnishings .. Boris's dad flying to one of his homes in Eastern Europe .. who are you trying to kid ?

The Rich in London with their swimming pools in basements, super cars, super yachts, jets and mansions all over the world ?

Yet you think I'm a problem .. no definately not.

When you stop the Rich from making a fool out of the rest of us .. such as sending "Recycling" to Asia whilst getting even richer .. only to get plastic burnt in mouintains and dumped in the sea.

You can forget it .. those that want to be Green ought to actually BE Green and Walk the Walk rather than Talk the Talk.

 

[Formatted]

Yet you think I'm a problem .. no definately not.

I think you have something they don't, which is the ability to sequester carbon. Potentially something you are going to get paid for within the next decade, a new income stream and all you've got to do is to ditch the plough and use some more cover crops, whilst you grow food. Appreciate you might have a closed mind to these sorts of things though

 

[Kevtherev]

Speaking to some fishermen about fish stocks on rivers being depleted isn’t by pollution it’s cormorants and goosanders

 

[Muddyroads]

I think you have something they don't, which is the ability to sequester carbon. Potentially something you are going to get paid for within the next decade, a new income stream and all you've got to do is to ditch the plough and use some more cover crops, whilst you grow food. Appreciate you might have a closed mind to these sorts of things though

I farm organically, something you presumably approve of as you quite rightly don’t want to see pesticides in rivers. Pert of my farm grows veg. How do you propose that I ditch the plough?

 

[wanton dwarf]

I think you have something they don't, which is the ability to sequester carbon. Potentially something you are going to get paid for within the next decade, a new income stream and all you've got to do is to ditch the plough and use some more cover crops, whilst you grow food. Appreciate you might have a closed mind to these sorts of things though

So who exactly is going to pay for "Sequestering Carbon" ?

Will it be those importing pretend Carbon free imports ? Will it be the Rich and Super Markets who are domiciled in Monaco, Luxemburg and the Bahamas ?

No it will be the tax paying relatively poor general public.

What is to stop the public from not bothering with giving farmers money when they can buy imports which attract no Carbon taxes ?

The end game = no UK farming if you haven't worked it out already.


You have no idea how I farm. But what I will say, thanks to Environmentalism we will have to increase the use of the plough which we began 2 years ago.

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

Go look at https://magic.defra.gov.uk/ and find your nearest NVZ, it will have the test results

On the issue of Nitrates you are 100% correct, less so on pesticides. However if you look closely at where the Nitrate problem occurs then you will find that it is almost totally down stream of a sewage works and has little or nothing to do with farming.
I am not sure about the pesticides, but in most of the local area here, there is very little cropping and so also not much spraying that will go into the water courses, if any.

It was interesting to read @Danllan regarding the continued trapping of small birds, however that doesn't explain the reduction in Swifts which would be unlikely to get caught. Many of the reasons for some species has been lack of safe nesting sites.
Also lack of food which for the House Sparrow in rural areas has almost seen the decline to zero as there are no longer any access to grain stores.

 

[Blaithin]

If only we had a dislike button! Our rivers are filled with pesticides and nitrates are they? Prove it!

Waters in Peril: Collective Measures for a Dying Lake Winnipeg | 2018 ASLA Student Awards

Leading the design and stewardship of land and communities Lake Winnipeg is one of the largest freshwater lakes in the world.

www.asla.org

Unless you think it can’t happen there too?

 

[Filthyfarmer]

As most of us know a lot of the good conservation work is being undone by imbalances of the apex predators and until the RSPCA and B admit to this then not a lot will improve. They wont because badgers and raptors are their cash cows.
The other predator around here disturbing the wildlife is folks walking their ( new lockdown ) dogs wherever they please...........

 

[delilah]

You have no idea how I farm. But what I will say, thanks to Environmentalism we will have to increase the use of the plough which we began 2 years ago.

And at the same time we have ELMS proposing to subsidize min till. It's all a bit of a pickle isn't it.

 

[Kevtherev]

The talk of nitrate pollution in rivers and watercourses its all too easy to pin the blame on farmers but sewage plants and other sources can be far worse.