Fencing: How do you do yours?

[True North]

I am asking as we have an informal/shortly to be made more formal with some neighbouring farmers on our land. They've promised fencing, spraying and various other bits and bobs by way of securing an agreement and having access to the land. Some of which have not appeared as I thoutght they might to be honest, particuarly if they want to keep it going forward. Hence the it being made more formal.

I've had a look today and the it looks a bit like coloured string to patch up the fencing, which I aren't too happy about. I don't mind replacing gates which are knackered but this is the third or fourth year they have had at the land with their herd (for nowt) and I want better going forward it looks scruffy which would be find if I was in the arse end of nowhere but we aren't and I wan't it looking farmed not a farm from The League of Gentleman (if you know you know).

Is coloured string and the make do and mend the way forward if they really want access to the land? I think not, but I'm open to hearing otherwise. I know some sheep grazers have told me they sort the fencing for tenancy agreeements and take it with them if they are taken off early which seems fair enough. It just seems like the bare minimum for wear and tear on our farm? Should I be insisting on posts and barbed wire been neatened/strengthened as they go as a minimum? There's plenty there in place but some are wonky and do need some TLC and maintenance I just didn'r consider string as an op[tion when I agreed to it. Not that string doesn't have it's place, it does, but more what should I be asking for as a minimum for cow grazing? We've ragwort abound and we want that dealing with (after sorting it this year ourselves) and the fencing for wear and tear, keeping their cattle safe - does that seem reasonable?

Am I just being averse to string as a boundary marker for cattle?

 

[7610 super q]

It sounds a bit too informal, allowing urine extraction.
Formal agreement required. Preferably with a new tenant.
Better still........farm it yourself. Just topping the ground twice per year yourself sounds better than the current arrangement.

 

[Goweresque]

How much land are we talking about here? And how bad was the fencing etc to start with?

There's always going to be a disconnect between self interests in a 'Free grazing in return for keeping things in good order' scenario - the grazier has no incentive to spend any money on the place whatsoever as its 100% lost money. He gets the grazing for free and if he can string (ha ha) you along with the bare minimum maintenance to keep his stock in then he's quids in. You on the other hand want as much spent as possible.

To be honest its a terrible way to run things, unless both parties are super conscientious. Far better to fix a proper rent and then spend that on improvements and repairs. In a normal landlord/grazier situation if the cattle wrecked something the grazier should really make good, but generally the landlord is responsible for the general wear and tear on the property.

On the other hand one gets the vibe from your post that you are not exactly that au fait with what farmed land is going to look like vs parkland, and maybe expecting too much. Graziers aren't going to 'neaten' fences that are perfectly functional, and string is often used to tie things in place.

We need pics!

 

[True North]

You've summed it up well tbh.

30 acre ish. Some walled, some fenced, not sure exactly what proportion is what. Some of the fencing is where the walling is falling short.

String (ha!) The deal was we would have some cows too (with their help....but no cows as yet). Wear and tear i'm good with but as it is their third year and I feel like more effort than string should be involved honestly at this point.

I aren't au fait with it all, that said. Howeve, I know a gift horse when I see one and 30 odd acres of grazing in exchange for string (thus far) is a duff deal ;-)

Really appreciate your honesty and insight, it is as I thought and I will feed this back as I think we are trying to be kind and trusting and it's not really translating on paper onto what we want or expect in return.

 

[True North]

It sounds a bit too informal, allowing urine extraction.
Formal agreement required. Preferably with a new tenant.
Better still........farm it yourself. Just topping the ground twice per year yourself sounds better than the current arrangement.

Wait...as in pee take? Yes you have it right. I think there is an element of urine extraction at play here.

It's a long story as to the whys and wherefores we are where we are, but the top and bottom of it is we are learning fast about the benefits of being more formal to avoid urine extraction. We aren't expecting new fencing in every field, but a bit more conscientiousness when essentiallyt they have the run of it, thus far anyway.

 

[True North]

How much land are we talking about here? And how bad was the fencing etc to start with?

There's always going to be a disconnect between self interests in a 'Free grazing in return for keeping things in good order' scenario - the grazier has no incentive to spend any money on the place whatsoever as its 100% lost money. He gets the grazing for free and if he can string (ha ha) you along with the bare minimum maintenance to keep his stock in then he's quids in. You on the other hand want as much spent as possible.

To be honest its a terrible way to run things, unless both parties are super conscientious. Far better to fix a proper rent and then spend that on improvements and repairs. In a normal landlord/grazier situation if the cattle wrecked something the grazier should really make good, but generally the landlord is responsible for the general wear and tear on the property.

On the other hand one gets the vibe from your post that you are not exactly that au fait with what farmed land is going to look like vs parkland, and maybe expecting too much. Graziers aren't going to 'neaten' fences that are perfectly functional, and string is often used to tie things in place.

We need pics!

Honestly, from what it looked like recently there is no expectation of parkland, it's not been overly looked after neatly. Just want it neat and tidy looking, not rough really. I have no issue with posts that are a bit wonky but functional, just maintain and replace what's truly knackered? I repeat they are having it for nothing, and whilst I accept it's not a great incentive to part with cash, this is a long term farmning agreement going forward.

I feel a but like they've muckied their ticket a touch. Promised it all...and delivered string.

I know I am probably asking questions that I know the answer to and I have already said I need to be more hard nosed, hence me coming on and checking myself a little.

 

[jamesmartin]

Honestly, from what it looked like recently there is no expectation of parkland, it's not been overly looked after neatly. Just want it neat and tidy looking, not rough really. I have no issue with posts that are a bit wonky but functional, just maintain and replace what's truly knackered? I repeat they are having it for nothing, and whilst I accept it's not a great incentive to part with cash, this is a long term farmning agreement going forward.

I feel a but like they've muckied their ticket a touch. Promised it all...and delivered string.

I know I am probably asking questions that I know the answer to and I have already said I need to be more hard nosed, hence me coming on and checking myself a little.

wouldnt you be better charging for summer grazing, which is what i do with 7 acres of spare grass , i dont want a tenant as i might want to do something myself later and it pays for any upkeep

 

[betweenthelines]

If you charge them nothing, that's the "value" it has in their eyes. As has been said, I think if you charge them a (lowish) rent, the land will have more value in their eyes. And you'll have a few quid to pay for maintenance.

 

[True North]

wouldnt you be better charging for summer grazing, which is what i do with 7 acres of spare grass , i dont want a tenant as i might want to do something myself later and it pays for any upkeep

Yes, Yes I would. Long and complicated stpry as to why we aren't. But this is an option.

 

[True North]

If you charge them nothing, that's the "value" it has in their eyes. As has been said, I think if you charge them a (lowish) rent, the land will have more value in their eyes. And you'll have a few quid to pay for maintenance.

Yeah, we are providing great value for them, sadly thus far no great return on what we thought would provide value for us.

 

[True North]

It sounds a bit too informal, allowing urine extraction.
Formal agreement required. Preferably with a new tenant.
Better still........farm it yourself. Just topping the ground twice per year yourself sounds better than the current arrangement.

would you write something up yourself?

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

Fence it yourself, and let it on summer let yearly, that way you have control of the fencing and land use, if them that has it now don't want to pay a fair rent, let it to someone that will pay a fair rent

 

[True North]

Fence it yourself, and let it on summer let yearly, that way you have control of the fencing and land use, if them that has it now don't want to pay a fair rent, let it to someone that will pay a fair rent

I know, I know, bit more complicated for us currently, but otherwise yes this would be an option.

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

I know, I know, bit more complicated for us currently, but otherwise yes this would be an option.

How complicated, get a fencing contractor in, will have all the gear, do a better job and quickly, yes it costs, but it as 2 benefits, 1 is its tax deductible, and secondly it allows you to carry on your day job earning money

 

[True North]

Thanks for this, I trhink we probably will do this in time. Just getting to grips with a lot of things all at once.

 

[davidroberts30]

I know, I know, bit more complicated for us currently, but otherwise yes this would be an option.

Are you letting it to family?

 

[True North]

No. Long story but basically we have a farm with land thet've had at for a year or so, and they have the knowledge and handholding we need as new farmers (and they want the land) so we negotiated on that basis. Free but with benefits to both parties.

Problem is thus far, none of the things we wanted for our business have happenedm lockdown aside and we feel they are perhaps looking the gift horse in the mouth.

We know we need to be more hard nosed, it's just going about it the right way from this point forward.

 

[glasshouse]

I am asking as we have an informal/shortly to be made more formal with some neighbouring farmers on our land. They've promised fencing, spraying and various other bits and bobs by way of securing an agreement and having access to the land. Some of which have not appeared as I thoutght they might to be honest, particuarly if they want to keep it going forward. Hence the it being made more formal.

I've had a look today and the it looks a bit like coloured string to patch up the fencing, which I aren't too happy about. I don't mind replacing gates which are knackered but this is the third or fourth year they have had at the land with their herd (for nowt) and I want better going forward it looks scruffy which would be find if I was in the arse end of nowhere but we aren't and I wan't it looking farmed not a farm from The League of Gentleman (if you know you know).

Is coloured string and the make do and mend the way forward if they really want access to the land? I think not, but I'm open to hearing otherwise. I know some sheep grazers have told me they sort the fencing for tenancy agreeements and take it with them if they are taken off early which seems fair enough. It just seems like the bare minimum for wear and tear on our farm? Should I be insisting on posts and barbed wire been neatened/strengthened as they go as a minimum? There's plenty there in place but some are wonky and do need some TLC and maintenance I just didn'r consider string as an op[tion when I agreed to it. Not that string doesn't have it's place, it does, but more what should I be asking for as a minimum for cow grazing? We've ragwort abound and we want that dealing with (after sorting it this year ourselves) and the fencing for wear and tear, keeping their cattle safe - does that seem reasonable?

Am I just being averse to string as a boundary marker for cattle?

Why the fek should a grazier repair your fences? Are you not embarassed you have let them get into a state?

 

[Goweresque]

Why the fek should a grazier repair your fences? Are you not embarassed you have let them get into a state?

Did you not read the bit where the grazier isn't paying any rent? And the fence repairing was to be in lieu of rent?

 

[True North]

Because they are getting the land for free. String didn't really come up much when they were negotiating field maintenence tbh.