Night lambers wage 2021

[ollie989898]

Any livestock experience at all Ollie? Milking ? Lambing?

Done both. What point are you making?

 

[Englishscott]

Just to muddy the water further, it’s ok and it does stack up to lamb 400 ewes inside with 100 pets and pay something like £400 a day/night in staffing...... because the tax payer bumps up the farms profits through sub.

It’s just not really enough ewes to be lambing inside as late as April, paying staff and associated indoor costs.

It’s all very well saying you have to pay x to get people into the industry, but I think the issue is much deeper.

These lot start tomorrow, I do agree and wouldn't be lambing these indoors myself, the day staff are the people who pay me and a coupe of extra hands they have during the day. They used to have around 140-160 pets and only lamb 320 ewes. The lamber before me lost 37 lambs in one night but obviously there are nights the lambing is quiet.

 

[ollie989898]

Just to muddy the water further, it’s ok and it does stack up to lamb 400 ewes inside with 100 pets and pay something like £400 a day/night in staffing...... because the tax payer bumps up the farms profits through sub.

It’s just not really enough ewes to be lambing inside as late as April, paying staff and associated indoor costs.

It’s all very well saying you have to pay x to get people into the industry, but I think the issue is much deeper.

I agree, the issue is very complex but I have genuine fears for the industry at large because the present state of affairs isn't going to attract many new faces, much less retain them.

 

[Englishscott]

A little off topic but, if you checked 400 ewe's at say 9pm and left them alone until 7am what sort of loses would you see in 3 weeks?
I know nothing about sheep other than my mother in law owns a sheep farm.

At this place the ewes tend to be busiest lambing 7-11.30 and 4-7 so here you would get quite a few, I have had nights where I have lambed 40plus ewes and they are terrible for pinching as well as mispresentation and stuck lambs. Welfare standards are high here and I honestly don't think the farmer would entertain leaving them for that long every night, putting right all the wrongs in the morning can also take so much time when they are left to lamb alone - that's sheep in general at lambing in my experience.

 

[Anymulewilldo]

That’s why I put above we’ve never had a night lamber, only triplets and singles on my biggest flock are in ( currently 125 ewes due tomorrow came in yesterday) I check at 8am, 12noon, 5pm and 10.30pm, at night I literally tube what I have to keep them alive until morning and do any adoptions. I expect to lose 1 lamb a night inside, sometimes it’s none but I bargain on 1 lamb a night at least for a period of 10-12 hours that I’m not there and you can tell with most that I’ll find dead they were born dead to so they would have been born dead while paying someone too I think you’ve got to be up big numbers per day to justify night lambers.

I’ll do last checks at 11, if all’s well it’s lights off. Brother gets here at 6 next morning. We might lose the odd lamb overnight. But it certainly isn’t 1 a night. Although we usually only get 5/6 that lamb before he gets here if that. Ours lamb like mad between 6.30 &7.30 before we feed. Guessing it’s because he’s woken them all up and started things stirring. The odd ewe that dies, I could have sat with her all night and she will still have died. Ours don’t tend too die during lambing. I can only remember 1 doing it in my time! Die for a host of other reasons... yes of course, but not ones I could do a lot about! Like you say, you get lambs born dead, it happens! Yes it would be handy too be there and do a straight wet adoption, but a good nights sleep is handy too and just put her in an adopter pen with a pair of triplets before feeding and carry on. I think a lot of the time lambing is as hard as you make it.

(Although we only tried lambing 7/8 bred texels once then we culled the entire batch. NEVER AGAIN)

I know we all differ on this point but for me this is why I like my mules, spit them out and just get on with it! If the weathers right the buggers will be outside again too!!

 

[CopperBeech]

These lot start tomorrow, I do agree and wouldn't be lambing these indoors myself, the day staff are the people who pay me and a coupe of extra hands they have during the day. They used to have around 140-160 pets and only lamb 320 ewes. The lamber before me lost 37 lambs in one night but obviously there are nights the lambing is quiet.

Sounds like whatever you charge you will make them their money back given their current situation. What are the sheep out of interest and why so many pets and deaths would you say?

 

[Englishscott]

North England mules, pets because of lack of wet fostering historically and I am the only one who will skin on, lack of patience when ewes are not coming to milk quickly so lambs just get out on the machine, the machine is easy, the machine is running and if there is a problem people just send them that way, they have put me off Suffolk and South downs rams for sure, the other rams here are produce much more robust lambs.
We don't get the high deaths anymore but they were due to mismothering, slow to get up lambs, a lot of the ewes need assistance to lamb, ewes too fat and unfit, too long in barn before lambing maybe. Used to be a fair loss to watery mouth but that also has reduced fairly dramatically. Some losses to schmallenberg too but not a lot can be done about that except assisting the viable lambs to feed for the first 24 hrs till they are strong enough to get going, many still go fat and off.

 

[Al R]

I’ll do last checks at 11, if all’s well it’s lights off. Brother gets here at 6 next morning. We might lose the odd lamb overnight. But it certainly isn’t 1 a night. Although we usually only get 5/6 that lamb before he gets here if that. Ours lamb like mad between 6.30 &7.30 before we feed. Guessing it’s because he’s woken them all up and started things stirring. The odd ewe that dies, I could have sat with her all night and she will still have died. Ours don’t tend too die during lambing. I can only remember 1 doing it in my time! Die for a host of other reasons... yes of course, but not ones I could do a lot about! Like you say, you get lambs born dead, it happens! Yes it would be handy too be there and do a straight wet adoption, but a good nights sleep is handy too and just put her in an adopter pen with a pair of triplets before feeding and carry on. I think a lot of the time lambing is as hard as you make it.

(Although we only tried lambing 7/8 bred texels once then we culled the entire batch. NEVER AGAIN)

I know we all differ on this point but for me this is why I like my mules, spit them out and just get on with it! If the weathers right the buggers will be outside again too!!

1 death/born dead a night average wasn’t for the 120 indoors but including 1300 outdoors to. Nothing dead for 4 days and then 3 this morning
My texelX are going for the same reason, twins outside, 30 might rear 52 lambs, mules in the field next door which are the mothers to the texelX’s will do 30-58, 10-15 fields doing the same every year, texelX ewe lambs went on Monday and exlana is taking their place, you know it’s bad when exlana ewe lambs rear more per ewe than mixed aged texels

In terms of night lambing you’ll probably agree that a dead sheep is better than a dead shepherd - when people are trying to do both day and night shifts

 

[Al R]

Done both. What point are you making?

Are you still doing your doctorate? What do trainee’s/students get paid these days compared to a fully qualified doctor?

 

[kiwi pom]

That’s why I put above we’ve never had a night lamber, only triplets and singles on my biggest flock are in ( currently 125 ewes due tomorrow came in yesterday) I check at 8am, 12noon, 5pm and 10.30pm, at night I literally tube what I have to keep them alive until morning and do any adoptions. I expect to lose 1 lamb a night inside, sometimes it’s none but I bargain on 1 lamb a night at least for a period of 10-12 hours that I’m not there and you can tell with most that I’ll find dead they were born dead to so they would have been born dead while paying someone too I think you’ve got to be up big numbers per day to justify night lambers.

Thanks for that, like I say I know nothing about sheep but I've never heard of a calving nightshift on large spring calving dairy herds (perhaps they do), so wondered why sheep needed them.
I suppose the night shift could get other work done as well on the other hand, does having someone around all night disturb the sheep and encourage them to lamb or have problems at night?

 

[kiwi pom]

in NZ I think the norm would be check 4000 ewes at say the 9th and leave them alone until 7 weeks is it not? At prices not long ago it wasn't worth staying up to save a life but with cull ewes making up to £160 yesterday and lambs also flying, loosing a bit of sleep is a little less painful than loosing a ewe and twins.

No I don't think that's what they do but I've no real knowledge of it.
Would comparing an outdoor Kiwi flock to an indoor high labour flock be a bit like comparing grass fed dairy grazers with high input permanently housed Holstein dairy cows?
Two different animals with different breeding.

Sorry off topic
Self employed nightshift you'd want to be on 20 quid an hour surely?

 

[CopperBeech]

Just thinking about this and I know it’s off topic but ...... we are discussing the value of a night lamber and if a £5 difference and hour is justified. You say the flock operates a high welfare policy .... but out if roughly 800 lambs 37 dead lambs in around 4.5% loses across total lambs in one shift. That’s like someone with 2000 outdoor lambing ewes scanned at 160% losing around 140 in one days lambing. They have a lot greater savings to be made than on your labour, so charge whatever value you think you bring. Sounds like they need all the help they can get. £15

 

[kiwi pom]

Just thinking about this and I know it’s off topic but ...... we are discussing the value of a night lamber and if a £5 difference and hour is justified. You say the flock operates a high welfare policy .... but out if roughly 800 lambs 37 dead lambs in around 4.5% loses across total lambs in one shift. That’s like someone with 2000 outdoor lambing ewes scanned at 160% losing around 140 in one days lambing. They have a lot greater savings to be made than on your labour, so charge whatever value you think you bring. Sounds like they need all the help they can get. £15

You must be up lambing sheep?

 

[CopperBeech]

You must be up lambing sheep?

All outdoor here. Just back from fox patrol!

 

[Englishscott]

Just thinking about this and I know it’s off topic but ...... we are discussing the value of a night lamber and if a £5 difference and hour is justified. You say the flock operates a high welfare policy .... but out if roughly 800 lambs 37 dead lambs in around 4.5% loses across total lambs in one shift. That’s like someone with 2000 outdoor lambing ewes scanned at 160% losing around 140 in one days lambing. They have a lot greater savings to be made than on your labour, so charge whatever value you think you bring. Sounds like they need all the help they can get. £15

Lots of thinking going on, far too early for that sort of thing, thanks though

 

[Estate fencing.]

I’ll do last checks at 11, if all’s well it’s lights off. Brother gets here at 6 next morning. We might lose the odd lamb overnight. But it certainly isn’t 1 a night. Although we usually only get 5/6 that lamb before he gets here if that. Ours lamb like mad between 6.30 &7.30 before we feed. Guessing it’s because he’s woken them all up and started things stirring. The odd ewe that dies, I could have sat with her all night and she will still have died. Ours don’t tend too die during lambing. I can only remember 1 doing it in my time! Die for a host of other reasons... yes of course, but not ones I could do a lot about! Like you say, you get lambs born dead, it happens! Yes it would be handy too be there and do a straight wet adoption, but a good nights sleep is handy too and just put her in an adopter pen with a pair of triplets before feeding and carry on. I think a lot of the time lambing is as hard as you make it.

(Although we only tried lambing 7/8 bred texels once then we culled the entire batch. NEVER AGAIN)

I know we all differ on this point but for me this is why I like my mules, spit them out and just get on with it! If the weathers right the buggers will be outside again too!!

I contract shepherd 500 mules that lamb inside. All jobs are finished by 7pm, go up at 10.30 to pen any that have lambed, then up the yard at 4.15am to start feeding ewes and ringing lambs. Not very often any ewes have lambed in the middle of the night, but seem to have a bit of a rush on at about 5.30.

I'm not sure that 400 ewes ever really warrant a night lamber, but if the farm think they do and cant be bother to do it them selves then they have enough money to pay someone £15/ hour to be there.

 

[Stw88]

Sounds like theres a change of management needed for the ewes in the run up to lambing with all them problems. If lambs aren’t thrifty and getting going on there own and ewes lacking milk they could be lacking something. Vary rare we suckle a lamb, throw them in pen and leave them to get on. Switch lights off at 11 and look again at 5/6 in the morning. There’s not that many lamb through the night. Same with out door lambing, find you can go round too early. Most will lamb 7-9 in the morning.

 

[Hilly]

Night lambers will be non existent in a few years, very few will want to do it .

 

[Englishscott]

Our ewes at home lambing indoors are left 11pm- 5am.
We don't have many lambing between those times either.

 

[Hilly]

Our ewes at home lambing indoors are left 11pm- 5am.
We don't have many lambing between those times either.

I bet you don’t, Tis always morning when they lamb early morning imo .