Stoneage sites

[egbert]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but in the hope that there are some archaeologists on here, can one of them explain how they've found pig bones at Stone Henge?

One of the university professions (the plump one with the beard whose on TV a lot) said they had DNA from the North of Scotland so had obviously been driven south by stone age people. Really? Has he ever tried to drive a pig across a field, let alone 600 miles?!

I love the 'stories' they make up from tiny bits of evidence.

Supposing the pig DNA does match some in the North of Scotland...who's to say it hasn't travelled the other way - Wilts man flogs Scot some weaners for breeding.
And who says the pigs were driven?
(I'd guess a lot of travel would've been done afloat)
Then, the movement might've taken decades, centuries.

 

[egbert]

This is the one my dad found

pic reminds me of a piece of limestone my neighbour once handed to an expert in such things.
After some consideration, the expert declared it wasn't of any significance.
The thing is, it came out of a pile of the native granite, cleared from the mans field -possibly- many centuries previously.
(the field systems hereabouts are often Bronze Age).

This rock was a very polished/worn piece of stone, from strata no nearer than 10 miles downstream.
Did the bloke think it was smooth cos the river had rubbed it so, as it tumbled 10 miles upstream?

no, that rock had a tale to tell, if we could but realise it.

 

[Red Fred]

There is a story on media today about half cwt lumps of Yorkshire granite being found at Avebury, and the experts can't see how they carried them all that way to make a circle. Sitting here by the good old River Avon, it seems obvious that they were carting stuff all round the coasts and up the rivers in boats and rafts, but for some reason they don't like that theory. Yet they tell us that they have found bones near here from people from Central Europe and Wales. Seems obvious that our ancestors used rivers as motorways.

 

[Kidds]

There is a story on media today about half cwt lumps of Yorkshire granite being found at Avebury, and the experts can't see how they carried them all that way to make a circle. Sitting here by the good old River Avon, it seems obvious that they were carting stuff all round the coasts and up the rivers in boats and rafts, but for some reason they don't like that theory. Yet they tell us that they have found bones near here from people from Central Europe and Wales. Seems obvious that our ancestors used rivers as motorways.

Generally farmers are practical people that can see ways of doing things, generally archaeologists haven't got a feckin clue how to do anything. They then come up with a bizarre theory that is just completely impractical and think they've made a wonderful new discovery.

 

[Dry Rot]

And who says the pigs were driven?

The little fat bearded professor on TV said it!

Probably stone age ham sandwiches!

I did wonder if perhaps there had been herds of wild pigs living on Salisbury Plain, like American bison, that brought everyone together for a huge autumn hunt and feast? Yes, stories on the tiniest scrap of evidence but it is kinda fascinating!

 

[primmiemoo]

Those "unsophisticated" people knew how to make baskets and cord, so I wonder if they would have made panniers for a quiet bullock to carry. Pop in the passenger of choice?

Investigating Neolithic and Bronze Age basketry and cordage | Archaeology | University of Exeter

humanities.exeter.ac.uk

Cattle were used for draft, too, so perhaps @steveR 's ox cart is to a more ancient pattern than the Gaul's.

Neolithic site changes understanding of cattle herding

An archaeological site in Dublin with an unusually large collection of cattle remains could potentially change the understanding of beef and cattle herding in Middle Neolithic Ireland and Europe. D…

www.bajrfed.co.uk

 

[Dry Rot]

I'm sure if they can drag them ruddy great stones from wales a few pigs wouldn't be too hard.

There's a man who never tried to drive a pig!

I managed to load the last of my free range pigs, all except the old boar. Eventually I hit on the idea of chasing it around the field on the MF135 giving it a shunt up the bum every time he stopped. Finally, the penny dropped that the only safe place was inside the trailer.

I hauled him off to the mart where we had similar fun UNloading him. I got out the way damned quick so as not to get involved in loading onto the haulier's transport. I gather that was assisted with a rope's end.

When they got him to his final destination, the boar had had enough and went for those trying to unload him. From here on, the story got worse and is not fit for a mixed audience. But maybe stone age man had skill we can only dream of?

 

[Red Fred]

Those "unsophisticated" people knew how to make baskets and cord, so I wonder if they would have made panniers for a quiet bullock to carry. Pop in the passenger of choice?

Investigating Neolithic and Bronze Age basketry and cordage | Archaeology | University of Exeter

humanities.exeter.ac.uk

Cattle were used for draft, too, so perhaps @steveR 's ox cart is to a more ancient pattern than the Gaul's.

Neolithic site changes understanding of cattle herding

An archaeological site in Dublin with an unusually large collection of cattle remains could potentially change the understanding of beef and cattle herding in Middle Neolithic Ireland and Europe. D…

www.bajrfed.co.uk

We do a lot of walking round the local hill forts and earthworks and sometimes they just don't seem to make sense from a fort point of view. However as a big enclosure for getting the cows in for iron age TB testing and protection from wolves, etc, then that seems just as likely. They must have faced the same issues we do only worse with no wire fences and an open landscape. Cattle were a big deal in those days according to the Roman invaders.

 

[som farmer]

we got asked if a group could survey our farm, as part of a bigger survey around an iron age hill fort, max 6 weeks, and agreed. They stayed 18 months, inc a winter break. And it was fascinating what they found, apparently, cos l wouldn't know, our farm has been a unit, for 3500 yrs, including a bronze age hill fort, long ploughed out. Neolithic stuff, iron age, roman and mediaeval, the latter being a disserted plague village. Like l said, to see the history of our farm, unfold before your eyes, fascinating, best bit, looking down on the girls digging away, on a hot day ! Time team came twice to look, but alas. We were looking at going organic, at the time, but were steered by county archaeologist, to go for 1 of the 'historic' options, at £448/ha, for the whole farm, we were supported by English Heritage as well, liked the sound of that, alas turned down, reason, to much money going on 1 farm. Never went organic either !
Despite the farm containing some very serious remains, nothing was 'protected', except 1 field, that had a deserted medieval village there, actually know, it wasn't, and l wasn't going to say where it was.
But nothing of any monetary value was found, not over surprised, a load of peasants were not likely to have much money, just like us.

 

[Exfarmer]

There's a man who never tried to drive a pig!

I managed to load the last of my free range pigs, all except the old boar. Eventually I hit on the idea of chasing it around the field on the MF135 giving it a shunt up the bum every time he stopped. Finally, the penny dropped that the only safe place was inside the trailer.

I hauled him off to the mart where we had similar fun UNloading him. I got out the way damned quick so as not to get involved in loading onto the haulier's transport. I gather that was assisted with a rope's end.

When they got him to his final destination, the boar had had enough and went for those trying to unload him. From here on, the story got worse and is not fit for a mixed audience. But maybe stone age man had skill we can only dream of?

Dry rot, you are talking of driving a single pig , I suspect driving small herds would be far simpler and that it would not have been uncommon 100 years ago.
I have no experience of driving pigs but every other farm animal I have come across were commonly driven sometimes hundreds of miles

 

[Nearly]

Perhaps the pig was pulling the cart, not in the cart as passenger?
Giddy up.

 

[egbert]

Those "unsophisticated" people knew how to make baskets and cord, so I wonder if they would have made panniers for a quiet bullock to carry. Pop in the passenger of choice?

Investigating Neolithic and Bronze Age basketry and cordage | Archaeology | University of Exeter

humanities.exeter.ac.uk

Cattle were used for draft, too, so perhaps @steveR 's ox cart is to a more ancient pattern than the Gaul's.

Neolithic site changes understanding of cattle herding

An archaeological site in Dublin with an unusually large collection of cattle remains could potentially change the understanding of beef and cattle herding in Middle Neolithic Ireland and Europe. D…

www.bajrfed.co.uk

Remember hearing about the vulture bone flute, found in a cave in germany.
It was tuned to perfection....absolutely 100% NOT made by Mr Ugg knocking some random holes in it cos it made a nice tootling sound.
It was made by someone who really knew how to make a flute........30,000 years ago.

 

[Dry Rot]

I was watching the program about an alleged hill fort on TV tonight (Digging for Britain? Sorry, trying to multi task!). They'd decided the 17ha "enclosure' wasn't a hill fort at all but just that, an enclosure -- with walls only 900mm high. Can pigs jump? Interestingly, when I paid attention again, there was an iron age burial with joints of pork buried with the corpse and evidence of mass feasting on pork. It's sure to be repeated and I'll pay attention next time.

 

[SteveHants]

Dry rot, you are talking of driving a single pig , I suspect driving small herds would be far simpler and that it would not have been uncommon 100 years ago.
I have no experience of driving pigs but every other farm animal I have come across were commonly driven sometimes hundreds of miles

And radio carbon dating isn't that accurate, so the "drive" could have easily taken a decade.

 

[som farmer]

you only need to look at ancient Egypt, to see what our forebears could achieve, and modern day experts haven't got a clue how they did it.
There's a complex in Turkey, Gobeckli Teppi, that dates back 12,000 yrs, when we were 'primitive', that's enough to throw the history all of mans evolution into the bin, now they have found a smaller, earlier complex, 8,000 yrs earlier than teppi. Both sites are very detailed and extensive, built when we were running around with skin clothes, clubs, and no permanent settlements, let alone carving stone figures,

 

[primmiemoo]

Remember hearing about the vulture bone flute, found in a cave in germany.
It was tuned to perfection....absolutely 100% NOT made by Mr Ugg knocking some random holes in it cos it made a nice tootling sound.
It was made by someone who really knew how to make a flute........30,000 years ago.

Absolutely staggering! ~

 

[fgc325j]

I was watching the program about an alleged hill fort on TV tonight (Digging for Britain? Sorry, trying to multi task!). They'd decided the 17ha "enclosure' wasn't a hill fort at all but just that, an enclosure -- with walls only 900mm high. Can pigs jump? Interestingly, when I paid attention again, there was an iron age burial with joints of pork buried with the corpse and evidence of mass feasting on pork. It's sure to be repeated and I'll pay attention next time.

I saw that and thought to my self "900mm high - any self-respecting Welsh Mountain sheep would have pee'd itself laughing - " if any Iron Age herder thought that would 1, keep the sheep in, and 2, keep the wolves out. You only have to read the postings in the last 2-3 years with stories about
sheep losses due to wolves being re-introduced into the mountains in France, to realise that 900mm fencing is pissing in the wind.
PS - ANY programme which Prof. Alice Roberts is involved is worth watching

 

[Ffermer Bach]

pic reminds me of a piece of limestone my neighbour once handed to an expert in such things.
After some consideration, the expert declared it wasn't of any significance.
The thing is, it came out of a pile of the native granite, cleared from the mans field -possibly- many centuries previously.
(the field systems hereabouts are often Bronze Age).

This rock was a very polished/worn piece of stone, from strata no nearer than 10 miles downstream.
Did the bloke think it was smooth cos the river had rubbed it so, as it tumbled 10 miles upstream?

no, that rock had a tale to tell, if we could but realise it.

I heard in passing on the radio yesterday, about round polished stones found in the USA, in areas where they weren't from. They said that they thought dinosaurs ate rocks for their gizzards, and then moved about and the rocks were left when they died. Amazing, isn't it.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

There's a man who never tried to drive a pig!

I managed to load the last of my free range pigs, all except the old boar. Eventually I hit on the idea of chasing it around the field on the MF135 giving it a shunt up the bum every time he stopped. Finally, the penny dropped that the only safe place was inside the trailer.

I hauled him off to the mart where we had similar fun UNloading him. I got out the way damned quick so as not to get involved in loading onto the haulier's transport. I gather that was assisted with a rope's end.

When they got him to his final destination, the boar had had enough and went for those trying to unload him. From here on, the story got worse and is not fit for a mixed audience. But maybe stone age man had skill we can only dream of?

lucky you weren't filmed with a secret camera!

 

[Dry Rot]

lucky you weren't filmed with a secret camera!

Oh, but it was a gently shunt given with care and consideration!