Suspended from Red Tractor

[chipchap]

Yes,come on Red Tractor, what have you got to say for yourselves???

 

[farmerfred86]

I have linseed loading out today and because i'm GTAS assured as well (an MUCH higher standard that RT) if I put a GTAS rather than RT sticker on the passport then all is good ...........................utter rubbish isnt it !

Can you use GTAS only and leave the RT scheme? What about TASCC (the holy grail of nonsense). Surely you only have to supply assured cereals from any one of the schemes??

Totally with you on this Clive - I'm sick of all the mandatory schemes and charges that our business has to comply with. Drainage charges for example... no control over costs and you have to pay it....

 

[cows sh#t me to tears]

Only marginally related to Clive's situation (but from the other side). Two years ago i bought certified ryegrass seed from a national seed distribution company. It contained not only large amounts of swarfs from cut bags, but also numerous dead mice. Bad enough the bits from old bags potentially causing blockages, but mice for christ sake. I kept said mice and complained to the retailer, who contacted the distributor. They promptly rang me, appologised profusely, explained how it occured (they use contract cleaning facilities , and one had obviously not cleaned their shed properly or swept it up and just bagged it....) End result, contract cleaning shed lost themselves a major seed company client (also got tore a new one), and they gave me 500kg ($1750 worth) of seed in good faith. I still buy the same seed off them to this day.

 

[chipchap]

Only marginally related to Clive's situation (but from the other side). Two years ago i bought certified ryegrass seed from a national seed distribution company. It contained not only large amounts of swarfs from cut bags, but also numerous dead mice. Bad enough the bits from old bags potentially causing blockages, but mice for christ sake. I kept said mice and complained to the retailer, who contacted the distributor. They promptly rang me, appologised profusely, explained how it occured (they use contract cleaning facilities , and one had obviously not cleaned their shed properly or swept it up and just bagged it....) End result, contract cleaning shed lost themselves a major seed company client (also got tore a new one), and they gave me 500kg ($1750 worth) of seed in good faith. I still buy the same seed off them to this day.

It seems your problem was sorted out in a very satisfactory manner.
Note no assurance scheme was needed, or indeed paid for.

 

[manhill]

Do mice not sh!t on the grain when they climb up the stems in the fields?
Does bird sh!t land between the grain stems only.
Ah for a perfect world!

 

[Neuson510k]

t seems your problem was sorted out in a very satisfactory manner.
Note no assurance scheme was needed, or indeed paid for

Yea because the company applied corrective actions.
The seed company probably had very clear standards set out to the contract seed cleaning company which they didn't reach.

Although what the OP was stating is a very minor non-compliance and should be easily sorted out.

 

[Beef farmer]

How has this thread been going for 3 hours and guth hasn't been tagged.

He'd back you up Clive, after RT you could head to the NFU office.

@gone up the hill

 

[PSQ]

i have no objection to the rejection - it happens and off it went to become a chickens breakfast at £20 a tonne less instead of being yours - quite rightly so !

My objection is to being suspended from the scheme until I'm prepared to lie and say I will do something different from my perfectly good (and approved by NSF) procedure we have in place, we don't have a rodent problem here, not even close, despite these best possible efforts we do have a few mice as does every grain store and farm in the UK

Why do you need to lie?

The obvious course of action is to invite them round to see for themselves.

 

[Farmer.sa]

I have to agree, things are getting silly, we had a micro toxins test done last year as we do every year and it came back as 0 first load of milling wheat went got held as they couldn't believe it was 0, after a bit of back and too they tipped it, from then on every load that left the farm I put 200 ppm on passport and yes you have guessed it no probs with the rest[emoji849]

 

[Goweresque]

Don't Do It!!!

This is very easily fixed, you write a letter explaining your "Corrective Actions" Basically explain what you think happened, What you will do about it, and what can be learned from this. You can stick a few punches in there in you want.

Everything is about duty of care nowadays. Just admit that your procedure failed but you fully intend to carry out an investigation and work hard to get it sorted. ( But in reality you carry on as normal ) The corrective action letter covers all of this.

This is what is utter BS about modern attitudes to regulations. Everything is fine as long as the paper trail looks good, reality can go f**k itself. Its this sort of attitude that ends up with lasagne full of horse meat. Why have regulations that can be flouted by the careless, lazy or even criminally minded with impunity but observed on paper? And then punish the people like Clive who are trying their hardest to comply?

 

[digger64]

Are these people for real - this stupidity has to stop

So after after storing 10's of thousands of grain this season in our farm / commercial stores, last week we deliver the last load of milling wheat, as we all know as practical farmers the last load form a store involves some sweeping down etc

1 (yes ONE) mouse dropping found ! so load rejected for milling, this is the ONLY rejection we have had all year so a very small % of our crop wheat crop ALL of which has gone to gp1 quality markets,

NO issue with the merchant, we discussed bringing back to clean, (not that ONE mouse dropping hardly justifies ) but we are fortunate to have modern facility to do so or re direct to a feed whet home (are chickens REALLY that picky ?)

Haulage and workload considered we decided it was best to redirect to a feed home - disappointing but not the end of the world, merchant as disappointed as us I think and just as annoyed by the pettyness of RT

NOW THE RIDICULOUS

A letter arrives yesterday from Red Tractor saying we are suspended from the scheme until we write to them explaining what we are going to do about our rodent problem.

I could write back and tell them how sorry we are and how we will change our policies etc. I'm sure a bit of bullpoo along those lines would satisfy them despite the fact it would change nothing and I would in reality do nothing different at all. Doing so would simply make me dishonest when there is nothing better or more that I can realistically do, there is no problem. The problem is their completely unrealistic and frankly ludicrous idea that any farm has no mice on it whatsoever

We don't NOT have a rodent problem, our storage facility is second to none IMO, we pass assurance with no uncompliances most years, and are not only red tractor assured but assured as a 3rd party store and testing lab under the way more robust GTAS scheme, we have a regular baiting policy and records , its very rare we see a mouse and I have never seen a rat in our yard. Bait points are plentiful, toped up regularly and are well located, modern buildings are sealed as well as any building can be, realistically there is nothing more that could be done to keep any rodent issues to a minimum here

I will be writing to tell them I intend to do nothing, there schemes is ridiculous, do they seriously expect there to be no mice at all on a farmyard ? Can ANY farm serious claim they have ZERO mice ever ?

Something needs to be done about these idiots, they are not being realistic here, if a modern multimillion £ storage facility like we have here can't satisfy them god only knows what will

What's the solution ? we have added this layer of extra cost to our business that has turned most farmers into liars to satisfy their unrealistic expectations, all so we can "compete" with grain and meat imported from markets where they don't even store stuff indoors quite often !

Who is more stupid them or the industy collectively for accepting their presence and influence in the market place ?

 

[Goweresque]

We all knew when FA came in it would make honest men liars.

I know Ayn Rand is not very PC these days, but this was written 60 years ago, and its as true today as it was then:


Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.

Atlas Shrugged (1957)

 

[yellow belly]

We have to be careful what we wish for
Envromentle health can shut down food establishments for failing inspections
If we had statutory local council inspections the costs and risks would be much higher
It only needs a health scare

I have found rabbit droppings and dear droppings in wheat but never found on intake
The risk to health is low as food is often cooked
I will have to up my rodent control
We used to use drop traps with antifreeze which were 100% effective but antifreeze was not an approved product

 

[farmerfred86]

Who is more stupid them or the industry collectively for accepting their presence and influence in the market place ?

Agreed but you can apply this to all sorts... council tax for example. Were not stupid for paying it - we don't have a choice. Same with RT. We didn't choose personally but it gets adopted by the industry and you have to go along with it.

I like to think that common sense generally prevails and moaning about it on TFF wont solve it. A phone call to them in good faith and an invitation to see the storage facility and suggest how they can improve the RT scheme would be the way to go...

 

[Adam@Rumen]

The irony is of course that 90% of consumers don't care or even know about Red Tractor.

 

[Selectamatic]

What if...

The Sun get's hold of this story, "Rat Poo in Cornflakes Factory" would be the headline.

Mr Jones's Corn Mill came under investigation yesterday when farmers were allowed to flout the law by selling mouse droppings mixed in with wheat. The wheat, contaminated with the poisonous droppings, would go on to become bread, biscuits and breakfast cereals. A quality assurance scheme, The Red Tractor, came under fire for allowing mouse poo to be accepted at the muiti million tonne mill....

Blah blah blah blah...

Yes, it is crap, but if the rules say no mouse sh!t (which I assume they do?) Surely one is too much?

 

[Jhabc]

Every other restaurant, cafe, canteen, hotel, supermarket etc. etc. has mice droppings. It is a fact of life.

Reminds me of the family in the village who thought they had rats in the house. They spent a fortune on Rentokil but 'droppings' kept appearing. When the grandmother came to stay and gave the toddler his morning snack of raisins she quickly worked out what the droppings were!!

 

[Nearly]

 

[milkloss]

Probably better fights to pick imo. I guess you've all seen this, was in Russia i think?

What the eyes don't see, the heart doesn't grieve about. They found mouse crap and I wouldn't want it in my loaf even though as a farmer I know it's most likely in there somewhere. Didn't they drain a lake in America because there was a video taken of a chap going for a wazz in it?

 

[Clive]

I have no issue with the rejection - there was mouse poo so it should be feed or cleaned etc

I do have issue with being asked to lie about how I can improve my already as good as it gets system and facilities and protocols re rodents

If I don't lie I will not be assured anymore, it's near blackmail imo

I also have issue for paying a protecttion racket when my import competitors don't