Time and Patience

[puppet]

We are about to reseed 20 acres and I was thinking about the machinery involved compared to my youth.
In 1970's I worked for a contractor driving Ford 4000/5000 (no FWD) with Ransome 3 furrow ploughs, 7 foot mounted discs , trailed harrows and a 10 foot drill with no GPS yet we seemed to get to get a lot of work done. 1000 acres of combining with three 10 foot NH, most farms having around 20 acres which was a days work each.
There was a lot of Spring cultivation done in foul weather and wet silage as 20 acres was a good day.
Now 100hp seems a dinky tractor and all the kit on the back is bigger and mega-money.
Have we actually moved on much as far as margins are concerned?

 

[teslacoils]

All those staff replaced by kit are all able to work in banking, media, law, tourism, so yes we have moved on.

 

[Spanish]

Humans have advanced in technology, comfort, hygiene and safety at work in other aspects I have my doubts. Human passions, desires and miseries have been the same since the beginning of time. Felipe II king of Spain in the 16th century in whose empire the sun always shone, since it spanned from the Philippines to Belgium, he had no television, no Iphone, or paracetamol to get rid of the headache.

As for the profitability of agricultural exploitation, in my experience, it is now abscenely low. It is incredible that you have to have the large investment we have in machinery and facilities to, in many cases, earn a salary. You cannot sell them products with prices equal to those of 30 years ago

 

[jendan]

All those staff replaced by kit are all able to work in banking, media, law, tourism, so yes we have moved on.

until now .................

 

[deleted user 837354]

Somewhere on the web is a forum full of bitter copper miners who are complaining like fudge about the cost of a 200 tonne dumptruck and loading shovel and how only Mexicans will work for them doing 50 hours a week.

Meanwhile, on another forum, some folks in the oil industry are complaining like fudge about the cost of environmental regulations these days and how oil is dirt cheap yet the only good place to get the stuff is in the frozen wastes of Alaska of all places.

 

[DrWazzock]

All those staff replaced by kit are all able to work in banking, media, law, tourism, so yes we have moved on.

But weren’t there plenty of solicitors and bank staff back in those days and probably less bank staff needed now due to computerisation. When mother worked in the bank she had to recognise all of the customers’ signatures and know everybody’s overdraft limit off the top of her head. People were sacked for letting customers go over their limit. Now the whole thing is done by a computer somewhere for the whole country.
It never fails to amaze me how people find enough to occupy themselves nowadays considering the amount of work that is now automated.
So do we eventually accept that 3 day working week will become the norm or do we redefine work as leisure, do it less intensively because there are plenty of us to do it but accept a simpler less costly life?
Put another way, I am a bit lazy really. I don’t work that hard in all honesty. So I can’t afford to go on holiday but as I haven’t worked that hard I don’t need one. I consider my life a kind of working holiday or exercise routine.

 

[DrWazzock]

Scale is over rated IMO. But over complexity can kill businesses large or small. We are in the middle of a bad dose of over complexity here with too many different crops killing us with overhead time.

 

[Hindsight]

But weren’t there plenty of solicitors and bank staff back in those days and probably less bank staff needed now due to computerisation. When mother worked in the bank she had to recognise all of the customers’ signatures and know everybody’s overdraft limit off the top of her head. People were sacked for letting customers go over their limit. Now the whole thing is done by a computer somewhere for the whole country.
It never fails to amaze me how people find enough to occupy themselves nowadays considering the amount of work that is now automated.
So do we eventually accept that 3 day working week will become the norm or do we redefine work as leisure, do it less intensively because there are plenty of us to do it but accept a simpler less costly life?
Put another way, I am a bit lazy really. I don’t work that hard in all honesty. So I can’t afford to go on holiday but as I haven’t worked that hard I don’t need one. I consider my life a kind of working holiday or exercise routine.

Yes, but in other posts you have indicated that you are actually working / playing a role in a living museum. I have images of Beamish? And we did post/reply on a previous thread a few weeks ago that you might be up for and Arts Council grant if played cards properly. By the way my Arts Council grant consultancy is still up for offer - an example really of the service economy. Be rather wrecked now though by Covid!? best wishes,

 

[DRC]

Scale is over rated IMO. But over complexity can kill businesses large or small. We are in the middle of a bad dose of over complexity here with too many different crops killing us with overhead time.

Yes, I’m not sure I’d enjoy the pressure of 2000 acres . I prefer the slower pace and a mix of crops. The thought of needing to work through the night on cultivation’s for instance , would depress the hell out of me

 

[Hindsight]

Scale is over rated IMO. But over complexity can kill businesses large or small. We are in the middle of a bad dose of over complexity here with too many different crops killing us with overhead time.

Pardon my ignorance and nosiness. But from what I have made of your farm from your many eloquent posts the whole lot would/should have gone into Mid Tier. You would draw the BPS and about £350ha net of costs. From sounds your machinery is pretty near written off? Borrowings and other costs minimal?

 

[DrWazzock]

Yes, but in other posts you have indicated that you are actually working / playing a role in a living museum. I have images of Beamish? And we did post/reply on a previous thread a few weeks ago that you might be up for and Arts Council grant if played cards properly. By the way my Arts Council grant consultancy is still up for offer - an example really of the service economy. Be rather wrecked now though by Covid!? best wishes,

Really half my working time is spent tinkering with classic machinery and infrastructure. I have gravitated to this situation as I enjoy it. I don’t like working with other people so will sacrifice £10k per annum to avoid having to work in a typical job.
Going back to the OP, I think that greed has led to current huge scale of operations and I find it sad that many are now sidelined out of agriculture. More often than not it was their own decision though heavily pressured by socio economic influencers who didn’t really have folks all round best interests at heart but were more interested in commissions on a big sale. Uk is generally anti ag anyway. That’s why they made all the thick ones do rural science at school. They thought farming was a dunces job. Said it all.

 

[DrWazzock]

Pardon my ignorance and nosiness. But from what I have made of your farm from your many eloquent posts the whole lot would/should have gone into Mid Tier. You would draw the BPS and about £350ha net of costs. From sounds your machinery is pretty near written off? Borrowings and other costs minimal?

A fair assessment of our situation. Really it’s the sort of land that should go into ELMS en bloc. But then what? I have to go pedal a bike in a gym instead of having a few days roguing. I do like activity both mental and physical and a certain amount of challenge. That’s worth a lot in itself. Not too much though. Get the balance right. We see folks in town on booze and drugs but when you look at what they have to work with and what they born into it surprises me there aren’t more going off the rails. They have been dumped by the system essentially. They are surplus to the requirements of economics in its most mercenary form. I don’t like mercenary economics.

 

[DrWazzock]

Margins are undoubtedly smaller. Sugar beet reached a peak price in the 1980’s I think at well over £30 per ton. That year we harvested 900 tons off 35 acres. All harvested with Standen Rapide tanker behind the MF565. The profit of those 35 acres was more than we can achieve off 100 acres of a mix of various arable crops today not even allowing for inflation. But council tax is 10x what it was then. My monthly drawings are the same as what my dads were!

 

[teslacoils]

I'm of the view a small farm now is not a business but an investment that also provides a house and a view. As such my drawings are nil and I seek work off farm once I've got these children back to school.

 

[7610 super q]

Somewhere on the web is a forum full of bitter copper miners who are complaining like fudge about the cost of a 200 tonne dumptruck and loading shovel and how only Mexicans will work for them doing 50 hours a week.

Meanwhile, on another forum, some folks in the oil industry are complaining like fudge about the cost of environmental regulations these days and how oil is dirt cheap yet the only good place to get the stuff is in the frozen wastes of Alaska of all places.

How interesting. I wonder if there's a Valtra forum, where members can congratulate each other on the awesomeness of their purchases.

 

[Warp Land Farmer]

I'm of the view a small farm now is not a business but an investment that also provides a house and a view. As such my drawings are nil and I seek work off farm once I've got these children back to school.

A very interesting take on it

 

[7610 super q]

I'm perpetually mystified. I do know we used to be able to afford new tractors now and again. These days S/H is almost out of reach. I make xxxx amount on my small acreage. I've scaled things up on the back of a fag packet.....f**k all x 1000 acres = f**k all. f**k all x 10,000 acres = f**k all. Yet everyone else has a couple of new tractors, new machines, quad bike, dump trailer, excavator ( stuff unheard of 30 years ago ) newish pickup, new sheds.........

Me most baffled.

 

[Bury the Trash]

I'm perpetually mystified. I do know we used to be able to afford new tractors now and again. These days S/H is almost out of reach. I make xxxx amount on my small acreage. I've scaled things up on the back of a fag packet.....fudge all x 1000 acres = fudge all. fudge all x 10,000 acres = fudge all. Yet everyone else has a couple of new tractors, new machines, quad bike, dump trailer, excavator ( stuff unheard of 30 years ago ) newish pickup, new sheds.........

Me most baffled.

I expect some do it with the help of Big bps payments , finance or both.

 

[jendan]

I'm perpetually mystified. I do know we used to be able to afford new tractors now and again. These days S/H is almost out of reach. I make xxxx amount on my small acreage. I've scaled things up on the back of a fag packet.....fudge all x 1000 acres = fudge all. fudge all x 10,000 acres = fudge all. Yet everyone else has a couple of new tractors, new machines, quad bike, dump trailer, excavator ( stuff unheard of 30 years ago ) newish pickup, new sheds.........

Me most baffled.

Its BPS payment relative to farm output. Every farm near me that has the new tractors/gear and put up lots of sheds in the last 20 years or so has a large BPS /SFP payment . In excess of £50,000 with direct sales sometimes not much more than £100,000.

 

[jendan]

Margins are undoubtedly smaller. Sugar beet reached a peak price in the 1980’s I think at well over £30 per ton. That year we harvested 900 tons off 35 acres. All harvested with Standen Rapide tanker behind the MF565. The profit of those 35 acres was more than we can achieve off 100 acres of a mix of various arable crops today not even allowing for inflation. But council tax is 10x what it was then. My monthly drawings are the same as what my dads were!

Milk and cereals/arable have been woeful at keeping up with inflation over the last 40 years or so. 26p/litre in 1996 should be 47p today,which undoubtedly would be if we still had the MMB. Milling Wheat at £120/ton in 1980 should be £518/ton today. Fat livestock have faired better,depending on start date,but £600 for a fat Friesian bullock in 1996 would be £1134 today,so might be a tad higher today.Likewise fat lambs,£50 in 2003 is £79 today.