What do you want from future ELMS – arable farmers opinions wanted

[Brisel]

@lcollas I've done this survey before.

In short, there are a few reasons I wouldn't choose certain options;

• Payment rates suggested do not always cover profit foregone. Concentrating overheads on a smaller area of cropping would have a detrimental effect
• Some options are not possible here. I'm on chalk downland where wet grassland is physically impossible. I'm also not allowed to plant trees as it is prohibited in my tenancy agreement. Allowing scrub to develop is also not permitted though I'm sure a chat with my landlord might be productive, though they would no doubt realise the value of that and attempt to capture much of the financial benefit.
• I'm reluctant to commit for any duration beyond 10 years. That's at least 2 parliaments for a start! It would also make me unable to change farm policy/structure. I appreciate that options like arable reversion would be 10 years+ and on past experience, be permanent due to the goal posts being moved - create something environmentally "interesting" and I fully expect the land use to be restricted beyond the lifespan of any agreements.

 

[yellow belly]

Quarterly payments from the start of the agreement

agreements made such that land lords view them as attractive for the tennant to apply

options based on an outcome scenario
one example is under current agreements blocks of wild bird mix have to be a mixture but to establish a mixture on some land types needs one part drilled deep another sh making a mixture that caters for all birds impossible to grow
they also do not allow perennial chicory which when grown in blocks benefit more small birds by a factor of 100 times over any other crop

 

[Brisel]

Quarterly payments from the start of the agreement

agreements made such that land lords view them as attractive for the tennant to apply

options based on an outcome scenario
one example is under current agreements blocks of wild bird mix have to be a mixture but to establish a mixture on some land types needs one part drilled deep another sh making a mixture that caters for all birds impossible to grow
they also do not allow perennial chicory which when grown in blocks benefit more small birds by a factor of 100 times over any other crop

AB9 does not preclude chicory. I have it in mine with kale to supply seed and canopy in year 2.

 

[yellow belly]

AB9 does not preclude chicory. I have it in mine with kale to supply seed and canopy in year 2.

Cannot establish any brassicas here due to flea beetle
prennial chicory will last a few years if properly fertilised out competing most injurious weeds

 

[Brisel]

We have flea beetle too. No brassica game covers around here at all other than ours for years for this reason - the "companion crop" effect is quite strong & if you sow it in late May/early June before rain it will have the best chance. Try adding a sprinkle next time you're sowing a mix then. You might be surprised.

I find that chicory gets stripped quickly by chaffinches in October/November. Not the worst outcome, but it leaves little later on though I'm supplementary feeding too.

 

[lcollas]

I'll fill in the survey tonight when I've got a moment. I've got one thing to add @lcollas
Just remember that as a nation we are not self-sufficient in food, and therefore must import.

I don't see any sense in turning productive UK arable land over to trees, and then importing even more food. If we want more land locked into trees for carbon capture, then why not do it in countries where food supply exceeds requirements. E.g. buy land in Brazil and either leave it as rainforest, or re-plant rainforest. Then leave our UK land as arable land so that we can feed ourselves.

I would be interested to hear why you might think that reforestation (or other scheme which takes UK arable land out of production), is a good idea when we already import much of our pigmeat, quite a lot of beef and a lot of pulses, all of which must be shipped here.

Hope that makes sense, and is a useful thought.

A very good point. In this study, we plan to quantify the benefit that would be provided by planting trees, and consider that alongside the cost (i.e. how much you need to pay farmers to do it) and the food production lost by using the land for that purpose. That will provide indication of how sensible planting trees is as a strategy for sequestering carbon.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Not at all, and not suggesting that future schemes should include other types of farmers. In an ideal world we would look at all types of farm but we cant look at everything with this study or it would have become too big with too many questions so had to narrow down the target audience

Will you be running a similar survey of livestock father opinions then? The area under grass in the UK dwarfs the arable area and the past schemes have been so loaded towards arable or LFA's that we've not qualified for any agri-environment scheme since set-aside!

 

[Brisel]

What management options in grass really make a difference? Other than arable reversion, management of species rich low intensity low fertility grassland and avoiding certain cutting dates to protect ground nesting birds, what else is there? The old low input grassland option suited my extensive sucklers nicely - max 50 kg N, no reseeding, no cutting before 1st (or was it 15th) June.

 

[lcollas]

Will you be running a similar survey of livestock father opinions then? The area under grass in the UK dwarfs the arable area and the past schemes have been so loaded towards arable or LFA's that we've not qualified for any agri-environment scheme since set-aside!

Possibly! I am limited by time so it will depend on when my current study concludes, but that is one of the options I'm considering for what to do next.

 

[lcollas]

Thanks to all that have completed so far

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

What management options in grass really make a difference? Other than arable reversion, management of species rich low intensity low fertility grassland and avoiding certain cutting dates to protect ground nesting birds, what else is there? The old low input grassland option suited my extensive sucklers nicely - max 50 kg N, no reseeding, no cutting before 1st (or was it 15th) June.

Silvopasture, planted up field corners, high diversity pasture (even if still high output), hedge planting along fence lines etc......

 

[Brisel]

Silvopasture, planted up field corners, high diversity pasture (even if still high output), hedge planting along fence lines etc......

How do you create high output pasture other than GS4 herbal leys, mob grazed? The others aren't unique to grassland, apart from agroforestry.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

How do you create high output pasture other than GS4 herbal leys, mob grazed?

Management. Have you read "Grass Productivity"?

The others aren't unique to grassland, apart from agroforestry.

No however they have always been allowed points in arable land but not in grassland.

 

[deleted user 837354]

No offence to the OP but when agricultural policy recommendations are being led by zoologists from the university zoology department... what hope is there

We laugh now but it will be this sort of folk formulating policy at NE in future. I can see the dissertation now: Population dynamics of water voles and European beavers during rewilding efforts in riprarian zones.

 

[farmerm]

We laugh now but it will be this sort of folk formulating policy at NE in future. I can see the dissertation now: Population dynamics of water voles and European beavers during rewilding efforts in riprarian zones.

I am not laughing, its been happening for a while and will continue to get worse!

 

[lcollas]

This research will consider the food production lost in delivering whatever conservation benefit is the target, to identify what strategy offers the best approach - food production is very much centre stage!

 

[lcollas]

We're to 70 responses, thank you to everyone that has completed so far!

 

[Grass And Grain]

Just to add that in the yield and sales value section, we also usually sell somewhere betwee 1.5 and 2 tonnes of straw per acre with the cereals, at between £45 - £100 per tonne (depending on the season). An average would be about £50/t for wheat straw and £65/t for barley straw.

The challenge for us farmers as a business will be to maintain our profit levels when BPS is gone and ELMS comes in. To do that, the ELMS payments for each farm would need to be in excess of the current BPS. for example, if we take out say 20% of our land for an ELMS option, then the ELMS payment would need to cover the old historic BPS payment PLUS the cropping margin forgone where the ELMS option is placed on the 20% of land.

 

[Brisel]

ELMS won’t be replacing BPS. BPS is being abolished. ELMS will need to replace the lower profit forgone and cover the overhead spent on the crop i.e. labour and machinery costs minus the marginal costs of overtime, fuel, spares. Just looking at gross margin isn’t enough.

 

[andybk]

We laugh now but it will be this sort of folk formulating policy at NE in future. I can see the dissertation now: Population dynamics of water voles and European beavers during rewilding efforts in riprarian zones.

and their effects on climate change ! (that will add another 20% to grant )