What has gone wrong with AI companies bull selection ?

[Happy at it]

Everything nowadays has gone narrower and frail. Not sure what the idea is behind it.

Was thinking the exact same thing after looking through the most recent cogent catalogue. There must've been only a couple of proven bulls with any significant chest width.

 

[Coldbrook]

I have booked an assessment for next month, hoping to start using it for breeding next May.

I noticed that all the bulls that have worked well for us in the past were a combination of 1,3,5. Everything these days are 2,3,4.

 

[Treg]

If your teats are too small the laser can't see the teat. And if it does the cup won't stick. Longer teats are way better as even if they are right next to each other or if cow has reverse tilt the laser can still find each teat.
Breeding small teats into a herd is worse than breeding a too tight ligament.

It's not just dairy , I've spent all morning looking for Beef Shorthorn bulls , getting more difficult to find decent ones.
The top Ai companies seem to be using the same narrow genetics so offer little choice, very few curve benders.
We need diversity in all breeds, Ai companies see one or two bulls sell well and concentrate on those genetics.

 

[Jdunn55]

It's not just dairy , I've spent all morning looking for Beef Shorthorn bulls , getting more difficult to find decent ones.
The top Ai companies seem to be using the same narrow genetics so offer little choice, very few curve benders.
We need diversity in all breeds, Ai companies see one or two bulls sell well and concentrate on those genetics.

You can't blame the ai companies for that.
There's no point buying bulls who won't sell

Breeding "different" bulls who sell is very, very difficult

For Instance, outcross bulls tend to never top the figures, not necessarily because there's anything terrible about them, more because they aren't perfect.

Therefore They aren't going to appeal to the masses as hard as you may try to sell him through marketing. The thing is he then becomes a very expensive bull because he needs to more marketing to try and sell him.

Whereas chart toppers sell themselves with little effort

 

[Sid]

Robots want longer teats than what you might desire in a parlour to help with cluster attachment speed

You also want the teats slightly wider and milking speed is important as that's what will eventually limit you on a bot

Milking speed has been on everyone's wish list.

Means possible poorer teat closures

 

[organicguy]

The issue for the AI companies with British friesian bulls is that 80% are sold to Holstein breeders so inbreeding for them is never going to be an issue with BF.
Whilst they try to find outcrosses for pedigree breeders they are never going to fill the catalogues because to get a decent PLI they have to be out of a high PLI cow. I believe half the Genomic PLI is based on parent averages, the other half DNA. Correct me if I'm wrong.
We breed our own bulls from our best cows, yield*comformation, when they have done a few lactations.
I am trying to get AI companies to test cows who perform above herd average but are by different bulls to look for outliers.

 

[Jdunn55]

I am trying to get AI companies to test cows who perform above herd average but are by different bulls to look for outliers.

I'd be interested to know if you find anything exciting!

 

[More to life]

It's not just dairy , I've spent all morning looking for Beef Shorthorn bulls , getting more difficult to find decent ones.
The top Ai companies seem to be using the same narrow genetics so offer little choice, very few curve benders.
We need diversity in all breeds, Ai companies see one or two bulls sell well and concentrate on those genetics.

The main problem for beef breeds is the best bulls are above the AI companies budgets.

 

[More to life]

Everything nowadays has gone narrower and frail. Not sure what the idea is behind it.

Think they last longer and tend to be more fertile sorry.

 

[dinderleat]

Think they last longer and tend to be more fertile sorry.

And give more kgms

 

[upnortheast]

Problem is a lot of the people selecting bulls can not see further than their laptop screen. Would not spot a good cow if it stood on their toe
We tend to do our own thing, main plank is long living, robust cow families.

 

[More to life]

Problem is a lot of the people selecting bulls can not see further than their laptop screen. Would not spot a good cow if it stood on their toe
We tend to do our own thing, main plank is long living, robust cow families.

If that's directed at me 20% of my herd went excellent at the last classification so I recon I know a good cow.

 

[Jdunn55]

If that's directed at me 20% of my herd went excellent at the last classification so I recon I know a good cow.

I think he means semen sales reps doing too much with a computer and not with their eyes

 

[upnortheast]

If that's directed at me 20% of my herd went excellent at the last classification so I recon I know a good cow.

Certainly not directed at you Sir.
. Too many see genomics as the total solution, when they are just one piece of the jigsaw.
If you have red & white cows genomics are meaningless in a small population

 

[FarmerWasty]

If that's directed at me 20% of my herd went excellent at the last classification so I recon I know a good cow.

i think its directed at the classification in general. An excellent cow is different for everybody, classifiers mostly dont know sh!t / are failed farmers anyways. Best cows always come from the most experienced farmers. I've seen plenty excellent cows sh!t the bed where a VG has preformed far better. Does type merit even matter these days? I think there are more important pieces of a puzzle to be chasing. But at what costs? Semen companies are gonna peddle genomic pli trash cos thats what we are all chasing at the end of the day.

 

[Jdunn55]

I think this thread has very nicely summed things up

We all have very different ideas of what a good cow is

Some people think classification is a complete waste of time
Some think breeding for type isn't important - as long as you can get the cluster on its all fine
Some are breeding for production
Some want fertility and health traits first and foremost
Some want proven bulls
Some are chasing pli
Some want wide medium stature cows
Some want narrow things that fall over
Some want tiny cows that walk through the cubicles and can escape through any size gap whilst only milking a quarter of a decent size cow

Etc etc (I'm winding you lot up before you come after me for saying narrow cows fall over )

Ai studs are trying to cater for all of that, plus trying to provide outcross bulls too

So when you get a catalogue fo 50 bulls and decide the semen company is sh!t because only 10 out of those 50 suit you, its actually because they have more than 1 customer to provide for...

 

[Durry cows]

I think this thread has very nicely summed things up

We all have very different ideas of what a good cow is

Some people think classification is a complete waste of time
Some think breeding for type isn't important - as long as you can get the cluster on its all fine
Some are breeding for production
Some want fertility and health traits first and foremost
Some want proven bulls
Some are chasing pli
Some want wide medium stature cows
Some want narrow things that fall over
Some want tiny cows that walk through the cubicles and can escape through any size gap whilst only milking a quarter of a decent size cow

Etc etc (I'm winding you lot up before you come after me for saying narrow cows fall over )

Ai studs are trying to cater for all of that, plus trying to provide outcross bulls too

So when you get a catalogue fo 50 bulls and decide the semen company is sh!t because only 10 out of those 50 suit you, its actually because they have more than 1 customer to provide for...

About sums it up well!

 

[Holsteinfriesian90]

I think this thread has very nicely summed things up

We all have very different ideas of what a good cow is

Some people think classification is a complete waste of time
Some think breeding for type isn't important - as long as you can get the cluster on its all fine
Some are breeding for production
Some want fertility and health traits first and foremost
Some want proven bulls
Some are chasing pli
Some want wide medium stature cows
Some want narrow things that fall over
Some want tiny cows that walk through the cubicles and can escape through any size gap whilst only milking a quarter of a decent size cow

Etc etc (I'm winding you lot up before you come after me for saying narrow cows fall over )

Ai studs are trying to cater for all of that, plus trying to provide outcross bulls too

So when you get a catalogue fo 50 bulls and decide the semen company is sh!t because only 10 out of those 50 suit you, its actually because they have more than 1 customer to provide for...

Very well summed up. Good job we are all different.

 

[FarmerWasty]

Absolutely spot on summary.

 

[westwards]

I think this thread has very nicely summed things up

We all have very different ideas of what a good cow is

Some people think classification is a complete waste of time
Some think breeding for type isn't important - as long as you can get the cluster on its all fine
Some are breeding for production
Some want fertility and health traits first and foremost
Some want proven bulls
Some are chasing pli
Some want wide medium stature cows
Some want narrow things that fall over
Some want tiny cows that walk through the cubicles and can escape through any size gap whilst only milking a quarter of a decent size cow

Etc etc (I'm winding you lot up before you come after me for saying narrow cows fall over )

Ai studs are trying to cater for all of that, plus trying to provide outcross bulls too

So when you get a catalogue fo 50 bulls and decide the semen company is sh!t because only 10 out of those 50 suit you, its actually because they have more than 1 customer to provide for...

Most of all we want cows that will last, and to do that they need good feet and legs good production and get back in calf easy. If they have straight legs they can't flex to get out of cubicles and do the splits very easy, if they have short teats you need plenty kick bars to hold milk tubes so they can milk and nobody wants to be pi$$ed off with that so why do 70% of bulls leave shorter teats ? Its because the plonkers that select them don't milk the daughters of the bulls !! I have worked with Alta doing a breeding program and I am very pee'd off with some of the results and that was when Alan Timbrell was scoring the cows and running the program ( and he does know a good cow) now its done without seeing the cows and using CIS info and its getting worse. I just want hassle free cows, is that so hard to get ?