Low disturbance subsoiling in a DD system

Bumble Bee · Jul 19, 2019

We haven't ploughed since 2012 (some fields longer). We used a Claydon until 2016 and have used a Weaving GD since.
I am now starting to see areas in spring beans that appear to be affected by compaction or tight soil.

We trialled half a field with a Sumo grassland subsoiler and the beans look noticeably better where we subsoiled.

We are very careful with traffic on our soils so am wondering if the soil it just naturally tightening up rather than any machinery derived compaction.
Do any of you routinely go through your soil with a low disturbance type subsoiler say every 4 or 5 years?

Adeptandy · Jul 19, 2019

robs1 · Jul 20, 2019

Is it compaction or just drought? Have you used a what do you call it thingy to test the compaction ? Pentrometer or something like that

Bumble Bee · Jul 20, 2019

robs1 said:
Is it compaction or just drought? Have you used a what do you call it thingy to test the compaction ? Pentrometer or something like that

Just a trowel.
Agronomist thinks it's compaction. It's just the very noticeable difference in crop where we have trialled the subsoiler that is making me wonder what is going on.

We have not been short of rain here so not drought related.

Rob Holmes · Jul 20, 2019

Ive started subsoiling difficult fields last year after years doing strip til, its totally transformed them
Planning to subsoil 1 in 8 before beans
Got a Bullock tillage Subdisc, and planning to put ultra low disturbance feet on this year

mo! · Jul 20, 2019

Surely the worms/cover crop/sense of own importance does all the subsoiling for you? (Not aimed at you @Bumble Bee)

Bumble Bee · Jul 20, 2019

mo! said:
Surely the worms/cover crop/sense of own importance does all the subsoiling for you? (Not aimed at you @Bumble Bee)

Well i do feel like a bit of a failure, like I've let the side down. I even wondered if it was just a '7 year itch'?

Adeptandy · Jul 20, 2019

Bumble Bee said:
Just a trowel.
Agronomist thinks it's compaction. It's just the very noticeable difference in crop where we have trialled the subsoiler that is making me wonder what is going on.

We have not been short of rain here so not drought related.

Is the agronomist pro or anti DD ?

Clive · Jul 20, 2019

Bumble Bee said:
We haven't ploughed since 2012 (some fields longer). We used a Claydon until 2016 and have used a Weaving GD since.
I am now starting to see areas in spring beans that appear to be affected by compaction or tight soil.

We trialled half a field with a Sumo grassland subsoiler and the beans look noticeably better where we subsoiled.

We are very careful with traffic on our soils so am wondering if the soil it just naturally tightening up rather than any machinery derived compaction.
Do any of you routinely go through your soil with a low disturbance type subsoiler say every 4 or 5 years?

Is it compaction or are the bean better become moving some soil mineralised some N ?

Have you dug some holes to look for compaction ? It’s either there or it’s not / easy to identify and frankly if that’s what your agronomist ”thinks” it is he should be able to confirm with a spade ! It’s pointless subsoiling if I you can’t find it but well worthwhile if you can

Bumble Bee · Jul 20, 2019

Adeptandy said:
Is the agronomist pro or anti DD ?

Very Pro.

Bumble Bee · Jul 20, 2019

Clive said:
Is it compaction or are the bean better become moving some soil mineralised some N ?

Have you dug some holes to look for compaction ? It’s either there or it’s not / easy to identify and frankly if that’s what your agronomist ”thinks” it is he should be able to confirm with a spade ! It’s pointless subsoiling if I you can’t find it but well worthwhile if you can

I had a bit of a dig and didn't think it was too bad. But he has also had a dig (and he has a penetrometer thingy) and thinks it could be a bit of compaction.

If it was N mineralisation would it not show up in other crops more?

Adeptandy · Jul 20, 2019

Bumble Bee said:
Very Pro.

Your lucky, mine is trying to disguise being anti, but not very well [emoji51]

Bumble Bee · Jul 20, 2019

Adeptandy said:
Your lucky, mine is trying to disguise being anti, but not very well [emoji51]

He is very good.....and he is not an independent!!!

Clive · Jul 20, 2019

Bumble Bee said:
I had a bit of a dig and didn't think it was too bad. But he has also had a dig (and he has a penetrometer thingy) and thinks it could be a bit of compaction.

If it was N mineralisation would it not show up in other crops more?

I would say it might show more in beans than any other crop as you won’t have applied any synthetic N to the beans

Legumes only fix their own N when they have developed root nodules so it’s perfectly possible for them to be constrained by N availability before that stage however

If you can find compaction then subsoil - if you can’t your just wasting time, metal and fuel

robs1 · Jul 20, 2019

I subsided part of a field a couple of years ago where we had tracked some soil from some work we were doing and did a bit extra as an experiment, didnt see any crop difference, have thought about using our aerator we use on the horse paddocks to see if there is any benefit,
I was talking to a lad who was helping us lay some concrete this morning and he is a market gardener and they have stopped working ground before sowing now, they just use compost to cover the seed and a gentle roll, he said they cant believe how much better their soil and crops are

pine_guy · Jul 20, 2019

So on a farm walk the other day. Advise there to look for compaction. Dig a hole, but only use the spade on 3 sides and flick the soil out so the inspection edge is not smeared by the spade. Ideally the soil will be moist, maybe tricky at the moment. Take your pocket knife and shove it into the soil working down the hole. If there is compaction, it will be notably harder to push the knife in.
Haven’t tried it yet, but will be.

robs1 · Jul 20, 2019

pine_guy said:
So on a farm walk the other day. Advise there to look for compaction. Dig a hole, but only use the spade on 3 sides and flick the soil out so the inspection edge is not smeared by the spade. Ideally the soil will be moist, maybe tricky at the moment. Take your pocket knife and shove it into the soil working down the hole. If there is compaction, it will be notably harder to push the knife in.
Haven’t tried it yet, but will be.

I often use my pocket knife to check soil especially in wheel marks

snarling bee · Jul 20, 2019

I know many will disagree, but from my observations, on heavy land, beans are the crop that dislikes DD more than any other. Other soil types might be different.

Andrew K · Jul 20, 2019

snarling bee said:
I know many will disagree, but from my observations, on heavy land, beans are the crop that dislikes DD more than any other. Other soil types might be different.

Borage totally dislikes compaction as well, remember well the time i put a mole blade through a newly established crop to link a drain repair and at flowering was amazed with the foot plus higher crop height and more vigour seen directly in the blades travel area.Not kidding..!

Brisel · Jul 21, 2019

You don't have to spend a fortune on one of these, as a bit of sharpened rebar with a T on top will suffice. What you're looking for are tight layers that you can more closely inspect with a spade. Look for plant roots travelling sideways instead of in all directions, especially downwards.

I don't wish to patronise, but there's a great guide to assessing soil structure here: https://ahdb.org.uk/knowledge-library/thinksoils

Beans don't like compaction at all. Like you, I have a Claydon and am looking to go to zero till so I'll be following this thread.

Low disturbance subsoiling in a DD system

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