£200,000

[bobajob]

It’s the blackie breeders that are moving into Texels now.!
Windmill money !

 

[sheepwise]

yea you got it , its the others in the pen that the bidders end up with as they cant afford the top one , they are the ones that make the money for the breeder ,
that said the other breeders will be queing up for semen from that ram at £50 - 100 a time , so they can sell offspring in next years catalogue, the buyer will get quite a bit back from semen sales .

The buyers won't be stupid enough to sell semen off him in the first year.

 

[Bob the beef]

Just the same as at the blackie /swale tup sales. The headliners are all sorted out several weeks in advance, only the the final winning bid can't be controlled. The "money " stays in a select few people's hands, and next year another member of the gang will get the flying price.

 

[Katarina]

Paul Slater sold a lot of semen off garngour awesome in the first year so you'd think sportsmans and auldhouseburn will do the same at a premium. Sheep seem to have a goal in life and that is to die so it makes sense to start bringing the returns back asap.

 

[sheepwise]

Paul Slater sold a lot of semen off garngour awesome in the first year so you'd think sportsmans and auldhouseburn will do the same at a premium. Sheep seem to have a goal in life and that is to die so it makes sense to start bringing the returns back asap.

I can just about guarantee those buyers will not sell semen from him this year. Why would they? If his sons are in demand next year then they will want to be the only ones with them to sell. Not saying they won't sell a few gimmers in lamb to him though at a premium price.

 

[muleman]

I dont profess to know much about texels....but dont think ive ever seen one with the style,length and quality of this one....if a lot of breeders use semen off him it can only do the breed good.

 

[sheepwise]

Maybe @Ysgythan can give us some insight on why this particular lamb was sought after? He gave a decent explanation of the record price given for Vicious Sid. I'm willing to bet it wasn't on account of his trait-leading EBVs.

It would be interesting to have a trial with this lamb and a decent commercial tup with a top 10% index bred with mule ewes.

If you speak to commercial farmers then you will find the jury is still out on high index texels with many saying they have lost their natural fleshing and are too hard to finish. Interestingly the texel breeder featured in the Scottish Farmer this week alluded to the same thing.

 

[Nithsdale]

Paul Slater sold a lot of semen off garngour awesome in the first year so you'd think sportsmans and auldhouseburn will do the same at a premium. Sheep seem to have a goal in life and that is to die so it makes sense to start bringing the returns back asap.

I remember the full brother of Tophill Joe (now he was a REAL sheep when he broke all the records!! To this day the smartest tup I've ever seen, IMO) Killed himself before he left Carlisle market. Done himself in running head on into a post while being loaded after the sale

 

[Woolless]

If you speak to commercial farmers then you will find the jury is still out on high index texels with many saying they have lost their natural fleshing and are too hard to finish. Interestingly the texel breeder featured in the Scottish Farmer this week alluded to the same thing.

They've changed the fat depth EBV to help this IIRC.

It won't just be high index sheep that become harder to flesh. They're all pumping them full of creep and coarse mix, aren't they?

 

[neilo]

Paul Slater sold a lot of semen off garngour awesome in the first year so you'd think sportsmans and auldhouseburn will do the same at a premium. Sheep seem to have a goal in life and that is to die so it makes sense to start bringing the returns back asap.

Paul Slater is not known for producing those sale topping ‘Pedigree’ ram lambs though, so a sensible decision to cash in on semen sales imo. If he was looking to produce ram lambs for Lanark, nobody else would get access to those genetics before then.

 

[neilo]

If you speak to commercial farmers then you will find the jury is still out on high index texels with many saying they have lost their natural fleshing and are too hard to finish. Interestingly the texel breeder featured in the Scottish Farmer this week alluded to the same thing.

That’s exactly why anyone should look at individual trait ebvs, not just an overal index........ as has always been the case.

A bigger issue than indexes, is the continued push towards bigger and bigger sheep, as rewarded by the show and sale ring. Shearling rams hitting the show rings at close to 200kg (whatever their feeding level) just aren’t going to be producing lambs that fatten off forage at 40-45kg. Huge mature weights inevitably mean later maturing animals, which is just the opposite of what the commercial farmer needs.
Blaming poorly selected ‘high index’ sheep is a complete red herring.

 

[milkloss]

These numbers are just stupid and makes farming look like some sort of horse breeders luxury hobby.

Seeing as no money really changes hands I suspect it’s a ploy to make their stock look valuable as they owe the bank far too much money. Sure makes the valuation sheet look good at the end of the year!

 

[Nithsdale]

These numbers are just stupid and makes farming look like some sort of horse breeders luxury hobby.

Seeing as no money really changes hands I suspect it’s a ploy to make their stock look valuable as they owe the bank far too much money. Sure makes the valuation sheet look good at the end of the year!

I don't think Midlock (breeder/vendor of the lamb in question) owe the bank's anything... the windfarm will make sure of that

 

[ford4000]

These numbers are just stupid and makes farming look like some sort of horse breeders luxury hobby.

Seeing as no money really changes hands I suspect it’s a ploy to make their stock look valuable as they owe the bank far too much money. Sure makes the valuation sheet look good at the end of the year!

From memory Craighead hercules sold for £52,000 but the value of his offspring and semen was said to have been about a £1,000,000, so there still opportunity there to make money

 

[CharcoalWally]

How in the fudge is a lamb worth 500 quid? Does it have 8 legs and weighs 200kg dead or something?

That's not an outrageous price for a decent commercial breeding tup lamb. Hundreds and hundreds of lambs will trade at that level.

 

[SteveHants]

That’s exactly why anyone should look at individual trait ebvs, not just an overal index........ as has always been the case.

A bigger issue than indexes, is the continued push towards bigger and bigger sheep, as rewarded by the show and sale ring. Shearling rams hitting the show rings at close to 200kg (whatever their feeding level) just aren’t going to be producing lambs that fatten off forage at 40-45kg. Huge mature weights inevitably mean later maturing animals, which is just the opposite of what the commercial farmer needs.
Blaming poorly selected ‘high index’ sheep is a complete red herring.

Weight gain is a function of mature weight though, which is one of the reasons that terminal sires exist. It is not, however linear, it tends to be approaching exponential until a certain percentage of mature weight is reached, at which point it flattens out.

Its hard to describe in words, if only I could draw a graph into the post....

 

[SteveHants]

That's not an outrageous price for a decent commercial breeding tup lamb. Hundreds and hundreds of lambs will trade at that level.

£500-1000, fine.

Much more than that is dubious, given the quality of tups available off farm in that price bracket.

 

[CharcoalWally]

£500-1000, fine.

Much more than that is dubious, given the quality of tups available off farm in that price bracket.

All depends on the skill of the buyer. Some people will buy fantastic lambs at a couple of hundred quid, some folk you can hand a blank cheque to and they'll still come home with a dud. I'm really not concerned with what others spend on tups. Only what I spend my money on matters to me.

 

[neilo]

Weight gain is a function of mature weight though, which is one of the reasons that terminal sires exist. It is not, however linear, it tends to be approaching exponential until a certain percentage of mature weight is reached, at which point it flattens out.

Its hard to describe in words, if only I could draw a graph into the post....

Growth curves vary between animals, and as you rightly say, flatten out as a level of maturity is reached. ‘Finish’ on a lamb, unless achieved by a high level of nutrition, is a level of maturity, so lambs need to have growth curves that flatten out at those weights.

Those animals that grow flat out, on very high levels of nutritional input, up to near 200kg, just aren’t going to do that. Picking a strong shearling is no measure of what they were like 12 months earlier either.

 

[SteveHants]

Growth curves vary between animals, and as you rightly say, flatten out as a level of maturity is reached. ‘Finish’ on a lamb, unless achieved by a high level of nutrition, is a level of maturity, so lambs need to have growth curves that flatten out at those weights.

Those animals that grow flat out, on very high levels of nutritional input, up to near 200kg, just aren’t going to do that. Picking a strong shearling is no measure of what they were like 12 months earlier either.

Well, quite.

The only way you are going to have any idea how an animals offspring will grow is by knowing how it grew and on what diet - what was it's litter size? 4 week weight? 8 week weight? Weight at weaning? Fat cover at 16-20 weeks....

And the only way you'll know that is if the breeder measures it.

How a mature ram looks at 14 months means next to nothing in terms of how his offspring will get to that stage.

The best analogy I can think of is that it's like buying a second hand car based on how tidy/shiny the bodywork is without looking under the bonnet.