- Location
- South Wales UK
Interesting times around.
29th March Britain leaves EU
- Thread starter Still Farming
- Start date
- Location
- South Wales UK
- Location
- South Wales UK
Remain LOST Again for the 2nd time!
We should have left the eu on the 29th March.
We should have left the eu on the 29th March.
wasn't it the third time ?
wanton dwarf
Member
Not so sure
I will be voting remain as its clear our lot couldn't run a tap
wanton dwarf
Member
I like your logic .. keep breeding the same stock because they're useless whilst accepting the prices given at market which you know is rigged against you ?
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
No, it would be the second one. The Eu election and Council elections can be interpreted in many ways, as @Henarar has demonstrated.
If you want a second referendum, it needs to have a clear, unambiguous choice - so work out what you all want Brexit to look like, and then go back to the country. Just don’t expect Boris to help, as he doesnt have a strong opinion.
wanton dwarf
Member
I prefer a general election.
The EU is not the only issue and it's obvious we don't have a functioning Democracy.
The agenda has moved on significantly .. time to root out the rot completely .. Failure of Representation, Failure to support UK industry, Excessive Imports from Communist China, Failure to arbitrate fair "Climate Change" Taxes, House of Commons, House of Lords, HS2, High House Prices, Low Wages, Excessive London Expenditure .. the list is endless.
did you lot ever work out what you wanted remain to look like and if you think you will get it, that certainly didn't happen first time round, sold on half a story as @Old McDonald has pointed out several times
Old McDonald
Member
- Location
- Harray, Orkney
Came in for a nice break (30+º out there at the moment) decided to check my emails and find you have tagged me into something I have been studiously evading for quite some time.
Had a quick look at the EU elections results and see that Farage has wiped the floor with everybody else. Remainers climbed onto the dead horse of the LibDems and the Greens picked up the global warming votes. Agree with the last lot - nobody else is taking AGW seriously enough. Tree fruit blossoms and temperatures are about 3 weeks in front of last Spring/Summer at this stage. Unlike most other folks I record my weather daily so know temperatures are gradually increasing year by year - with the occasional stall.
Just to keep you straight - Remain won the first referendum and lost the second, which we were graciously allowed after more than 40 years. There has not been a third, and should not be until the second is put into effect. These EU elections are not a referendum, even in the UK, and a future GE will probably result in Farage failing to become an MP yet again as the majority are likely to vote for the mainstream parties despite their failings. The UK has had useless leading politicians in the past and no doubt will have again.
As you do rightly say, the first referendum win for Remain was basically because the ballot paper (note the actual ballot paper) included the definition of the then EC as "the Common Market" misleading the voting public into thinking they were only voting for Remaining in a trading agreement instead of the original, and still ongoing, DETERMINATION to use the expression from the Founding Treaty of "an ever closer union".
There are some who claim that in the second referendum, for which we are still awaiting implementation, the voting public were not properly informed so they want another referendum. Nobody likes losing, and I am quite happy for them to have their third referendum 40 years after implementation of the Leave result in 2016. Seeking to overturn a vote that has not been implemented is exactly what Erdogan has done in Istanbul so those seeking another referendum now must agree with Erdogan's views on elections.
The EU cannot be changed without overturning the consolidated Treaties that exist from 1957 to date so it is wishful thinking to hope it might. Cameron was given short shrift and May's negotiators capitulated. There is no possibility of negotiating a change to the present Withdrawal Agreement so it is necessary to advise the EU that the UK is leaving at the end of the current extension date of 31st October but is open to discussions on future trading arrangements before and after that date. There will then be a more sensible agreement reached.
Finally, I am sorely disappointed that you are even considering switching sides, but will leave that for another day as I have some spraying to do.
my vote a few days ago wouldn't indicate that I have switched sides.
the uselessness of our government and parliament is enough to make anyone think that way but perhaps now given the result they may finally take the hint
very well summed up above Old Mac
Old McDonald
Member
- Location
- Harray, Orkney
Pheeewwww!! After all these years of being one of the few who knew about the ballot paper and the "ever closer union" aim from the very beginning, you had me worried.
The probem is not so much the uselessness of the government - although I do admit that from being a supporter of May in the beginning, I changed my mind as she let slide her original claim that she would deliver the result of the referendum. It became all about "her" Withdrawal Agreement. She must have known that it would never be acceptable. I find the biggest problem with it is the NI border backstop. Both sides claim it will never happen. So why put it in there? If it is in the agreement, it will happen.
As for the uselessness of Parliament, it is all about money and egos. Think of the Kinnocks. Bliar. Will Owen. Never heard of him? An MP I knew from my work in the local authority of the Borough of Morpeth which was part of his constituency. Found not guilty, but I think he would be now.
It is worse throughout the EU though. Look at any day's news and see how many politicians in other countries are involved in scams, swindles, fraud, backhanders, jobs for the boys, etc. etc. Two today Austria and Romania.
- Location
- South Wales UK
All action down there.
That's why their queueing to get there?
That's why their queueing to get there?
wanton dwarf
Member
I was going to post "Someone" "Somewhere" etc and decided I better not ..
Anyway please find the following post. Not a great amount of detail about specific events BUT it does mention how various kinds of fraud within the EU are just blanket not investigated .. surprising the amounts involved.
https://brexitcentral.com/covered-u...ason-why-were-right-to-have-voted-for-brexit/
"The thresholds were adjustable but in 2011 for instance they sat at €1 million for customs, cigarettes and trade matters; €100,000 for accession country grants; €250,000 for agriculture and other funds; €50,000 for direct expenditure and external aid; and for internal investigations, €1,000 – since that was open bribery. The special priorities figure shifted for the following year upwards, to €500 000 in the European Social Fund and Cohesion Fund and €1 million in the European Regional Development Fund, though despite the higher threshold the inference was there would be more staff assigned to chase them as a priority, which should also be a pointer as to the number of serious cases then in the pipeline."
Whether this is a factual account I know not.
Old McDonald
Member
- Location
- Harray, Orkney
@wanton dwarf Thank you for that. You and I have seriously disagreed with each other from time to time on other matters, but never been enemies, and sometimes totally agree with each other on some things. I like that sort of relationship.
The article confirms my post about corruption beng endemic throughout Europe. Just to raise the hacckles of a few - that is why we Brits have been at war with most of them for at least 1000 and in some cases 2000 years. Portugal excepted of course. England has never been at war with Portugal (except loosely by extension of Portugal being subjugated by the Spanish for a while).
I particularly liked this part:
"The reluctance to openly address these failings should be a concern for anyone in an EU member state, since after all it is their money that is at risk. By extension, we might strongly suggest that it also has implications for anyone seeking to continue to put UK taxpayers’ money into a common EU pot in the future after Brexit. It most certainly should be a concern for anyone seeking to repudiate the Brexit vote altogether and retain EU membership. Supporters of the EU after all declare that the country should ‘stay in and reform the system’.
It behoves such die-hards to openly set out the problems they claim to seek to reform – which go well beyond money matters and embrace issues of democratic accountability, quangocracies, and the murky mass lobbying that is fused into the ‘comitology’ system that advises the EU structures and turn them into an exemplar of unaccountable corporatism."
I have posted on numerous occasions here and elsewhere that it is impossible to change the way the EU operates without dismantling all the Treaties and that is simply not going to happen. The whole idea of an "ever closer union" of the people of the various European countries was very well thought out and planned. Any country within what is now the EU has to move towards that ever closer union. It is now impossible to escape unless all other members now agree.
I cannot understand those who wish to be part of this ever closer union. As a single handed farmer and landowner I have no desire whatsoever to be tied to anyone else. As an individual person I have no desire to be forced to be part of some scheme where we are all part of the same system of governance despite being of different cultural and ethnic backgrounds and in entirely disparate parts of the planet. For various reasons I have chosen to spend part of my life far from my place of birth, but I integrate and accept the culture and customs of those countries in which I have lived. I even played cricket in Australia!!
The article confirms my post about corruption beng endemic throughout Europe. Just to raise the hacckles of a few - that is why we Brits have been at war with most of them for at least 1000 and in some cases 2000 years. Portugal excepted of course. England has never been at war with Portugal (except loosely by extension of Portugal being subjugated by the Spanish for a while).
I particularly liked this part:
"The reluctance to openly address these failings should be a concern for anyone in an EU member state, since after all it is their money that is at risk. By extension, we might strongly suggest that it also has implications for anyone seeking to continue to put UK taxpayers’ money into a common EU pot in the future after Brexit. It most certainly should be a concern for anyone seeking to repudiate the Brexit vote altogether and retain EU membership. Supporters of the EU after all declare that the country should ‘stay in and reform the system’.
It behoves such die-hards to openly set out the problems they claim to seek to reform – which go well beyond money matters and embrace issues of democratic accountability, quangocracies, and the murky mass lobbying that is fused into the ‘comitology’ system that advises the EU structures and turn them into an exemplar of unaccountable corporatism."
I have posted on numerous occasions here and elsewhere that it is impossible to change the way the EU operates without dismantling all the Treaties and that is simply not going to happen. The whole idea of an "ever closer union" of the people of the various European countries was very well thought out and planned. Any country within what is now the EU has to move towards that ever closer union. It is now impossible to escape unless all other members now agree.
I cannot understand those who wish to be part of this ever closer union. As a single handed farmer and landowner I have no desire whatsoever to be tied to anyone else. As an individual person I have no desire to be forced to be part of some scheme where we are all part of the same system of governance despite being of different cultural and ethnic backgrounds and in entirely disparate parts of the planet. For various reasons I have chosen to spend part of my life far from my place of birth, but I integrate and accept the culture and customs of those countries in which I have lived. I even played cricket in Australia!!
- Location
- South Wales UK
Leave every Country as it is .
EU needs us more than we need them .
Stop all their rubbish coming in here, then their'll soon listen .
EU needs us more than we need them .
Stop all their rubbish coming in here, then their'll soon listen .
Old McDonald
Member
- Location
- Harray, Orkney
I agree with your sentiments on Brexit, but disagree with some of your arguments.
I have been a Leaver since before the UK even considered joining its forebear. I was pleased that de Gaulle refused to accept the UK as a member.
I am also somewhat in agreement with you that the EU needs the UK. My ever increasing production is destined for the UK market. I would like some RoI outlets too.
I do though object to you saying that EU produce is rubbish. I produce olive oil and some products using it. They are good. I drink a lot of wine and with the exception of the occasional bottle of South African Chenin Blanc it is all from the EU. None of it is rubbish. I do admit that I do not like Italian wines, but they are not rubbish, it is simply that I do not like the taste. There are whiskies that I dislike - every Speyside I have ever tasted (and that is at least one from most distilleries) has not suited me, but again, they are not rubbish, just not to my taste.
In an area as vast as the EU it is impossible to generalise about quality. As I have done, pick out a few specific examples and I will probably agree with you again.
- Location
- South Wales UK
Yes good and bad everywhere .
But as you know once you cross that channel anything goes .
Rules ,regs ,approved chemicals , laws, taxes etc etc that we GOT to abide by seems to be not followed as rigid by other member states .
The poorer members love it there but detrimental wealthier ones.
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
That's because our government gold plate everything. And yet some think the rules will go away when we leave the EU.