Another one on the environmental bandwagon

Ffermer Bach

Member
Livestock Farmer
Livestock are the perfect strategic food reserve. Squirrels, rabbits, and pheasants just won't be enough.
I think these veggies should read about the conditions in Stalingrad in WW2 and then see if we should be getting rid of meat. Personally I'd prefer to eat beef than human.
they could also look at what happened in the Ukraine (information below taken from Wikipedia)

The Holodomor (Ukrainian: Голодомо́р, romanized: Holodomór, IPA: [ɦolodoˈmor];[2] derived from морити голодом, moryty holodom, 'to kill by starvation'),[a][3][4][5] also known as the Terror-Famine[6][7][8] and sometimes referred to as the Great Famine,[9] was a famine in Soviet Ukraine from 1932 to 1933 that killed millions of Ukrainians. The term Holodomor emphasises the famine's man-made and intentional aspects such as rejection of outside aid, confiscation of all household foodstuffs and restriction of population movement. As part of the wider Soviet famine of 1932–33 which affected the major grain-producing areas of the country, millions of inhabitants of Ukraine, the majority of whom were ethnic Ukrainians, died of starvation in a peacetime catastrophe unprecedented in the history of Ukraine.[10] Since 2006, the Holodomor has been recognized by Ukraine[11] and 15 other countries as a genocide of the Ukrainian people carried out by the Soviet government.[12]

Early estimates of the death toll by scholars and government officials varied greatly.[13] According to higher estimates, up to 12 million[14] ethnic Ukrainians were said to have perished as a result of the famine. A United Nations joint statement signed by 25 countries in 2003 declared that 7–10 million perished.[15] Research has since narrowed the estimates to between 3.3[16] and 7.5[17] million. According to the findings of the Court of Appeal of Kyiv in 2010, the demographic losses due to the famine amounted to 10 million, with 3.9 million direct famine deaths, and a further 6.1 million birth deficits.[18]

Whether the Holodomor was genocide is still the subject of academic debate, as are the causes of the famine and intentionality of the deaths.[19][20][21] Some scholars believe that the famine was planned by Joseph Stalin to eliminate a Ukrainian independence movement.[10][22] According to Natalya Naumenko, collectivization policies of the Soviet Union and lack of favored industries were primary contributors to famine mortality (52% of excess deaths), and some evidence shows there was discrimination against ethnic Ukrainians and Germans

To my mind, the best defence against this type of famine, is a diverse, local, independent food production system, so lots of small producers growing food, using small local abattoirs and butchers, rather than relying on large international food systems (look at what happened in Cuba, when the USSR dissolved)

again taken from Wikipedia
The Special Period in Time of Peace (Spanish: Período especial) in Cuba was an extended period of economic crisis that began in 1991[1] primarily due to the dissolution of the Soviet Union and, by extension, the Comecon. The economic depression of the Special Period was at its most severe in the early to mid-1990s, before slightly declining in severity towards the end of the decade once Hugo Chávez's Venezuela emerged as Cuba's primary trading partner and diplomatic ally, and especially after the year 2000 once Cuba–Russia relations improved under the presidency of Vladimir Putin.

It was defined primarily by extreme reductions of rationed foods at state-subsidized prices, the severe shortages of hydrocarbon energy resources in the form of gasoline, diesel, and other petroleum derivatives that occurred upon the implosion of economic agreements between the petroleum-rich Soviet Union and Cuba, and the shrinking of an economy overdependent on Soviet imports.[2] The period radically transformed Cuban society and the economy, as it necessitated the introduction of organic agriculture, decreased use of automobiles, and overhauled industry, health, and diet countrywide. People were forced to live without many goods and services that had been available since the beginning of the 20th century.
 

Ffermer Bach

Member
Livestock Farmer
Most of the veganite propaganda gets ignored on fb, but I was glad to see the response to an official body sharing such nonsense. Sensible folk, the world over, don’t buy into the agenda.

Those supporting it really don’t seem the brightest of folk at all. I genuinely feel sorry for them, they drastically undervalue themselves.
if you have time to read the article I have attached, I think it shows that Vegans aren't the brightest folk!
 

___\0/___

Member
Location
SW Scotland
From NFU scotland Ayrshire branch Facebook page
Screenshot_20210525_123900_com.facebook.katana.jpg
 

DaveGrohl

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cumbria
if you have time to read the article I have attached, I think it shows that Vegans aren't the brightest folk!
The contrast between BBC the tv and radio arm and BBC the website is quite wide. Sensible articles can be found on the website, things that would never ever see the light of day on the tv and radio.

Great article FB. "Vegans tend to have healthier hearts" highlighted in the article pricked my ears up so I clicked on the link. BMJ article on "vegetarians and vegans" so not vegans then. Food questionnaire study comparing meat eaters, fish eaters and vegetarians/vegans. The study states that they had to lump vegetarians in with vegans because of the low numbers of vegans in the study. Talk about misrepresentation. Vegetarians are generally a healthier bunch but vegans aren't the same. Strangely the higher incidence of stroke wasn't mentioned in the BBC article that provided the link. This is exactly the sort of trash "science" that has got nutrition recommendations where they are today. Food questionnaires (head smash against wall). Smilies aren't working for some reason.
 

onesiedale

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Derbyshire
emailed


Good evening,

Disappointed to see you jumping on the ill thought out anti-meat bandwagon, especially given the land capability of the county you represent.

Could you perhaps elaborate the decision to pursue this path a bit beyond your overly simplistic ad campaign? And how it fits in with the emissions pie chart below

View attachment 963149

Looking at it (very) simply, a 75% reduction in livestock would reduce that sector’s emissions from 5.8% of total, to 4.35% of total. A 1.45% reduction in total emissions.

You’d then increase veg (agricultural soils) by 75%, so that would increase from 4.2% to 7.35% of total emissions. Should probably bump up “energy in agriculture” a bit too. I’m not sure how you’d quantify increasing seed/nut production emissions from the above chart as it doesn’t appear to feature in UK emissions. Are they just to be imported from somewhere else? Coz that means it doesn’t count doesn’t it.

So you’d reduce livestock emissions by 1.45% of total, increase veg emissions by 3.15% of total to counter that, plus the 150% increase in nuts and seeds, (which I’m sure you’ll have the emission figures for, so I’d be pleased to hear what they are).

I’m a bit confused, so be pleased to have it cleared up by reply.

If you’d like, I could send you a picture of a vegetable field and also one of a grass field with sheep in it and you can decide which is probably better for the environment. Remember we live in Scotland, not California, so there’s a reason why we have the types of agriculture we do, and not fields of almonds, pecans and avacados.

Want to help the environment? Buy sustainable, buy local. It’s a bit more effort to bypass the big corporations, but do they have our best interests at heart? No, they don’t, they want to sell us a fusarium mould meat substitute grown in vats, using biblical amounts of energy to do so.

Why? Because food has become so devalued by retail in its relentless pursuit of footfall and market share that thcan no longer make sustainable profits. Factory food is a way of cutting nature, and it’s unreliable variables (like weather) out of the financial forecasts and subsequent dividend payments.

Would really expect a bit more from the elected officials of this country. Was any research done other than reading the Guardian and following extinction rebellions McDonald’s protest on Twitter?

Here’s a handy link to some facts, that haven’t been provided by PETA or whomever else has been sending leaflets or standing outside the office.

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?pages/thesolution/

kind regards
Thanks. I've bookmarked that one!
 

Ffermer Bach

Member
Livestock Farmer
Anyone interested in the ultra processed food angle, just been a very good programme on R4/ world service, The Food Chain, worth a listen.
Really interesting, I usually dislike the BBC (as everything is seen through a "woke", London centric, left biased, Vegan view point), but they do have some really interesting programmes, especially on Radio 4, shame this gem of a programme is hidden away, thank you for highlighting it to me. Interesting point, that replacing the ingredients with "meat free" stuff, is replacing the meat with Ultra Processed Food!
 

melted welly

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
DD9.
They were on about lab grown meat again at ten to 6 this morning. Running what amounted to an advert for ivy farm technologies. Said meat production accounted for 1/5 of global emissions.

“Cultured, guilt-free, meat” is how it’s marketed. Brief question as to how healthy it actually is, but it’s fine apparently. 🙄.
 

DaveGrohl

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cumbria
They were on about lab grown meat again at ten to 6 this morning. Running what amounted to an advert for ivy farm technologies. Said meat production accounted for 1/5 of global emissions.

“Cultured, guilt-free, meat” is how it’s marketed. Brief question as to how healthy it actually is, but it’s fine apparently. 🙄.
Watched HIGNFY last night. One comment that kept going round was "Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should". Amen to that. How could this stuff possibly as safe as what what nature provides?
 
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Yale

Member
Livestock Farmer
Won`t be long after they ban Glyphosate that there will not be any farming,especially to grow veg.
Never looked at it this way.

As a livestock farm glyphosate is a useful tool for pasture renovation however not ultimately essential.

I‘m sure it would be missed a great deal more from crop production.

And how would you grow Roundup ready GMO crops without it?:unsure:
 

DaveGrohl

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cumbria
Never looked at it this way.

As a livestock farm glyphosate is a useful tool for pasture renovation however not ultimately essential.

I‘m sure it would be missed a great deal more from crop production.

And how would you grow Roundup ready GMO crops without it?:unsure:
So what you're saying is there doesn't seem to be much joined up thinking going on with all this? Hmmm, I think you could be on to something.
 

kill

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South West
Watched HIGNFY last night. One comment that kept going round was "Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should". Amen to that. How could this stuff possibly as safe as what what nature provides?
Saw the lab grown meat advert🙈 this morning and it stated hormones are needed to grow it but no antibiotics are used unlike most conventional production. Now prove me wrong but no hormones are used in uk farming due to associated risks and problems and antibiotics are only used as animal welfare when required.
 

DaveGrohl

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cumbria
Saw the lab grown meat advert🙈 this morning and it stated hormones are needed to grow it but no antibiotics are used unlike most conventional production. Now prove me wrong but no hormones are used in uk farming due to associated risks and problems and antibiotics are only used as animal welfare when required.
I think hormones were stopped because of distrust from the public. Not health concerns as such, just perceived problems which is a very different thing.
 

delilah

Member
Just had the below email from South Ayrshire Council.
The message being, I guess, that alot of this guff is being put out through naivety rather than open hostility, and if we respond then positive results can come out of it. Well done to the local NFU who got them out to a farm (y)


Thank you for your email and for the useful information attached.
The post that I think you are referring to was about projections regarding overall global food consumption in 2050, rather than local meat production, and the source was EAT-Lancet Commission report ‘Food in the Anthropocene’, The Lancet, January 2019. In future we will be more explicit about the source and context of any statistics that we use to ensure our communications are clearer and less susceptible to misinterpretation.
Our intention with this post was to raise awareness of changing global food patterns and their link to emissions as part of our wider communications around food and the environment. This wider set of communications included information about the nationally driven nutritional improvements to our school meals, how we are supporting local food growing in allotments and gardens, and the positive economic, social and environmental benefits of sourcing locally produced food, which we are also working to increase.
We are keen to reassure you that we are not anti-meat and we want to support all aspects of our local farming community. We recognise that farming will be impacted by a changing climate as much if not more so than other sectors. We recognise that farmers are part of the solution to climate change and reducing greenhouse gas emissions, and that evidence shows that there is a definite place for local meat production as part of a low carbon diet, that this in turn relates to patterns of land management, regenerative agricultural practices and sustaining good soil health (see Delivering Net Zero Scottish Agriculture, WWF, 2019). Food systems and the many outcomes and interlinkages are complex, demonstrating how critical it is that we all work together in the face of the climate emergency to deliver the best outcomes.
The post gained a lot of traction, and while we are very sorry the post caused unintended upset, we are glad to be able to say that this has led to some very positive conversations with the National Farmers Union and a recent trip to visit a farm with our senior leadership team and elected members. We are grateful to the NFU and the farmers who have supported and facilitated this, and we look forward to increased understanding, partnership working and cooperation going forward.
We have also taking part in our local farm to fork dialogue which brings farmers and local authorities together to discuss how we can make our food systems more sustainable in the lead up to COP26.
To conclude, we really value engagement and feedback from local people and other stakeholders, and we will take this into consideration with regard to our future communications.

Best wishes,
The Sustainable development Team
 

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