Are All Water Companies Not Fit For Purpose?

[TheTallGuy]

Privatised electric is genuinely competetive (if you ignore the monopoly of the National Grid). You can swap power supplier easily.

Try doing that for water.....

Or sewage!

A genuinely competetive privatised marketplace is ideal so long as the market signal mechanism covers all the necessary factors. That is clearly not in place though or the water companies would not be washing raw sewage into rivers hundereds of times a day across the UK while paying massive shareholder and executive bonuses.

The "competitiveness" of the electricity (and mains gas) market is a sham because the fixed distribution network operator controls who puts the energy into the network and at what price, which involves a lot of smoke and mirrors & hence why there's been a rash of suppliers going down the pan.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

The "competitiveness" of the electricity (and mains gas) market is a sham because the fixed distribution network operator controls who puts the energy into the network and at what price, which involves a lot of smoke and mirrors & hence why there's been a rash of suppliers going down the pan.

True but I was making a very broad comparison.

The whole notion of privatising these utilities was illiterate and ignorant imho.

 

[steveR]

we have had a long running dispute with, waterplus, waterplus is in my opinion the worst company ive ever had the misfortune to try to deal with?

100%. Diabolical corporate bunch of tossers. Rip off scum

On saying that, during my long standing dispute with them, I did find 2 members of the staff who were helpful and pleasant. One gave me some evidence that I suspect should not have been revealed which helped me later, and the 2nd escalated my 3rd official complaint and got me a settlement that while not what I was owed, brought the sorry mess to a conclusion. If there was an alternative, I would be off like a flash.

It was telling that one of the "old school" STW chaps I had a meeting with earlier this year about another matter, was equally as scathing about WaterPlus and the problems they had dealing with them too... There must be a better way?

 

[steveR]

True but I was making a very broad comparison.

The whole notion of privatising these utilities was illiterate and ignorant imho.

But think of the money that was made.....

 

[caveman]

But think of the money that was made.....

Before privatisation, most services were provided and then paid for weeks and weeks after delivery. Probably an average of six weeks credit?
Nowadays. To receive these services, we have to pay up weeks and months in advance.
I'm just curious as to where all that money in hole inbetween has gone to?
It certainly doesnt seem to have gone to improve the services to the customers.

And to @Frank-the-Wool .

Send the buggers a bill for storing their water.

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

UPDATE DAY 10 of Southern Water Inaction Over Water Leak

Monday morning the man who looks after the traffic lights is back. I asked him when they were going to repair the burst main, but he said it might be Wednesday or Thursday as they couldn't find enough people to do the work. Not sure what happens when SW have a really major problem.
He works now from 7 to 7 and drives down from London, so 120 mile a day round trip all on expenses to sit and watch the lights. When I told him the lights were out of phase, he said he knew but because they are such a long stretch he cannot alter the timing!!

I decided to have another attempt at elevating this to get it fixed and after advice from NFU, who told me to threaten them with CCW (Consumer Council for Water). Apparently SW have the worst record for Customer complaints and if it goes to CCW then SW have to pay for the investigation of the complaint.

Anyway I phoned the local SW team in Sheffield again and after the first two just hung up on me, it was third time lucky from a nice girl who took notice of what I said and managed to find out how to elevate my complaint. It took 40 minutes but I did at least speak to a person more senior. However when he looked at the notes and my emails he was at a loss to explain the issue.
However he was not allowed to have his own email or direct telephone when I suggested I could call him and find out what progress he was making!!

You can see why SW would have all their offices in Yorkshire now instead of Sussex as it is a long way to go to punch one of them on the nose!!!!!!

 

[thesilentone]

Try this, and send a link to this thread:

[email protected]

Or try this number: 01903 272603

A friend said this is worth a browse for any future problems

CEO e-mail addresses

List of e-mail addresses for CEOs of companies and other organisations

ceoemail.com

 

[Longlowdog]

Surely in this day and age of ecological awareness a claim for a flooded field should include items like;
sustained loss of biological activity,
waterlogging and the subsequent acidification of the land due to stagnant water,
diminishment of carbon capture ability,
loss of amenity,
and since we are now 'woke':
emotional upset and distress caused by being callously ignored when you have reported the situation and been promised action and the heartbreak and sense of helplessness at being on the receiving end of broken promises,
then time and labour involved in reporting and T and L plus materials (lime, etc) in future rectification.
No-one has entered into an agreement/contract in which they have signed their rights to fair and equitable treatment away simply by owning a field next to a pipe. Surely the water companies must defend these claims rather than arbitrarily setting the terms of claims in their own favour?
It would also seem fair that a non-skilled citizen should avail themselves of a knowledgeable legal representative to facilitate the proceedings once it becomes clear they are not able to right the wrongs themselves.
What happens if you threaten them with a max claim at the small claims court?

 

[steveR]

Surely in this day and age of ecological awareness a claim for a flooded field should include items like;
sustained loss of biological activity,
waterlogging and the subsequent acidification of the land due to stagnant water,
diminishment of carbon capture ability,
loss of amenity,
and since we are now 'woke':
emotional upset and distress caused by being callously ignored when you have reported the situation and been promised action and the heartbreak and sense of helplessness at being on the receiving end of broken promises,
then time and labour involved in reporting and T and L plus materials (lime, etc) in future rectification.
No-one has entered into an agreement/contract in which they have signed their rights to fair and equitable treatment away simply by owning a field next to a pipe. Surely the water companies must defend these claims rather than arbitrarily setting the terms of claims in their own favour?
It would also seem fair that a non-skilled citizen should avail themselves of a knowledgeable legal representative to facilitate the proceedings once it becomes clear they are not able to right the wrongs themselves.
What happens if you threaten them with a max claim at the small claims court?

Good ambulance chaser type solicitors should have a field day here...

 

[steveR]

A friend said this is worth a browse for any future problems

CEO e-mail addresses

List of e-mail addresses for CEOs of companies and other organisations

ceoemail.com

Coo, that is a VERY interesting site to visit.

 

[Goweresque]

Surely in this day and age of ecological awareness a claim for a flooded field should include items like;
sustained loss of biological activity,
waterlogging and the subsequent acidification of the land due to stagnant water,
diminishment of carbon capture ability,
loss of amenity,
and since we are now 'woke':
emotional upset and distress caused by being callously ignored when you have reported the situation and been promised action and the heartbreak and sense of helplessness at being on the receiving end of broken promises,
then time and labour involved in reporting and T and L plus materials (lime, etc) in future rectification.
No-one has entered into an agreement/contract in which they have signed their rights to fair and equitable treatment away simply by owning a field next to a pipe. Surely the water companies must defend these claims rather than arbitrarily setting the terms of claims in their own favour?
It would also seem fair that a non-skilled citizen should avail themselves of a knowledgeable legal representative to facilitate the proceedings once it becomes clear they are not able to right the wrongs themselves.
What happens if you threaten them with a max claim at the small claims court?

I suspect the statutory powers the utilities have are significant, and the law will be heavily loaded in their favour when it comes to liability for losses and amounts of compensation. One suspects that they will be liable for a landowner's 'losses' but it would be up to the landowner to prove those losses were real, rather than the utility to prove that they weren't. So you'd have to prove environmental losses, emotional distress etc, to a court's satisfaction, which is easier said than done.

 

[Oliveau]

I suspect the statutory powers the utilities have are significant, and the law will be heavily loaded in their favour when it comes to liability for losses and amounts of compensation. One suspects that they will be liable for a landowner's 'losses' but it would be up to the landowner to prove those losses were real, rather than the utility to prove that they weren't. So you'd have to prove environmental losses, emotional distress etc, to a court's satisfaction, which is easier said than done.

A good agent will be able to draw up a solid fully substantiated claim. Statutory Powers do not allow the undertaker to flood adjoining land, fail to act to repair a major leak and ignore landowner’s complaints.
I wish I wasn’t retired as I’d love to be instructed so that I could kick a lot of incompetent idiots.

 

[Oliveau]

UPDATE DAY 10 of Southern Water Inaction Over Water Leak

Monday morning the man who looks after the traffic lights is back. I asked him when they were going to repair the burst main, but he said it might be Wednesday or Thursday as they couldn't find enough people to do the work. Not sure what happens when SW have a really major problem.
He works now from 7 to 7 and drives down from London, so 120 mile a day round trip all on expenses to sit and watch the lights. When I told him the lights were out of phase, he said he knew but because they are such a long stretch he cannot alter the timing!!

I decided to have another attempt at elevating this to get it fixed and after advice from NFU, who told me to threaten them with CCW (Consumer Council for Water). Apparently SW have the worst record for Customer complaints and if it goes to CCW then SW have to pay for the investigation of the complaint.

Anyway I phoned the local SW team in Sheffield again and after the first two just hung up on me, it was third time lucky from a nice girl who took notice of what I said and managed to find out how to elevate my complaint. It took 40 minutes but I did at least speak to a person more senior. However when he looked at the notes and my emails he was at a loss to explain the issue.
However he was not allowed to have his own email or direct telephone when I suggested I could call him and find out what progress he was making!!

You can see why SW would have all their offices in Yorkshire now instead of Sussex as it is a long way to go to punch one of them on the nose!!!!!!

Unbelievable!

 

[Forkdriver]

A good agent will be able to draw up a solid fully substantiated claim. Statutory Powers do not allow the undertaker to flood adjoining land, fail to act to repair a major leak and ignore landowner’s complaints.
I wish I wasn’t retired as I’d love to be instructed so that I could kick a lot of incompetent idiots.

Me too!

 

[Goweresque]

Statutory Powers do not allow the undertaker to flood adjoining land, fail to act to repair a major leak and ignore landowner’s complaints.

Have a word with my near neighbours @FG. and @organicguy, they'll tell you how the water companies behave in this country. They have 2 large water mains under their land that burst on a regular basis (at least once a year, often more) and flood large areas, destroy crops, ruin farming plans, the repairs cause mayhem, basically make life a nightmare. Getting any compensation out of the water company (Thames) is like pulling teeth. They contest everything.

Dealing with utilities is fine in theory, in practise they behave like the Mafia, they are untouchable. None of the land agents want to play hardball with them because they are all afraid of being blackballed and not getting any juicy utility company gigs in the future. If the N(o) F(lipping) U(use) had anything about them they'd create a legal and agent team that just represented farmers against the utilities and were prepared to play hardball. But that would be a) useful and b) make waves, so of course they don't.

 

[Forkdriver]

The Water Act makes the water companies strictly liable for damage caused by burst mains, although strangely not for burst sewers. You can't expect punitive damages, but the law is on your side.

 

[FG.]

Have a word with my near neighbours @FG. and @organicguy, they'll tell you how the water companies behave in this country. They have 2 large water mains under their land that burst on a regular basis (at least once a year, often more) and flood large areas, destroy crops, ruin farming plans, the repairs cause mayhem, basically make life a nightmare. Getting any compensation out of the water company (Thames) is like pulling teeth. They contest everything.

Dealing with utilities is fine in theory, in practise they behave like the Mafia, they are untouchable. None of the land agents want to play hardball with them because they are all afraid of being blackballed and not getting any juicy utility company gigs in the future. If the N(o) F(lipping) U(use) had anything about them they'd create a legal and agent team that just represented farmers against the utilities and were prepared to play hardball. But that would be a) useful and b) make waves, so of course they don't.

Goweresque, can i just correct you on one thing....I've had 6 bursts on my 900mm pipe this summer alone.
Everything else, your spot on

 

[Forkdriver]

Goweresque, can i just correct you on one thing....I've had 6 bursts on my 900mm pipe this summer alone.
Everything else, your spot on

What material are the pipes? The grey plastic that were common in the 70's are going all-over the place.

 

[FG.]

What material are the pipes? The grey plastic that were common in the 70's are going all-over the place.

3/4" GRP.
The joints start leaking, which de-laminates the GRP, until it bursts.
Been in about 18 yrs.
We've had 32 bursts so far.
Got a 700mm concrete, running along side, that's been no trouble in 30 odd yrs

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

The good news is that I now have an ex SW employee who knows how the system works over compensation.

The bad news is that I had a call from my new "friend" at the call centre who is trying hard to help. He was delighted to tell me at 6.30pm that engineers were on site and fixing the leak.
By 9.30 engineers had abandoned the site and flooding is now worse.