BPS reduction chart

[Case290]

Rents are basically subsidies by the home farm bps so rents will be hit hard fast. Can’t see farmers subsidising there farming with other income.

 

[Timbo]

Rents are basically subsidies by the home farm bps so rents will be hit hard fast. Can’t see farmers subsidising there farming with other income.

Majority of landlords are not going to budge on rent figures.

 

[steveR]

I think that by the time ELMS kicks in it will be too late. I can't see too many farmers being motivated by limited money and extra cost when their businesses are in a worse position than today.

According to press this week, lots of farms coming on the Market the past fortnight. Some will be Sales that have been deferred, but sounds like a fair number of new offerings coming forward too.

Those LL with plenty of investment money can make their choice... Looking at the business pages today in the papers, I wonder how many big Investors will be as keen on farmland

 

[Timbo]

According to press this week, lots of farms coming on the Market the past fortnight. Some will be Sales that have been deferred, but sounds like a fair number of new offerings coming forward too.

Those LL with plenty of investment money can make their choice...

A good few will be on the market where LL cant get the rent they wish.

 

[Steevo]

Be under no illusions, ELMS will be no replacement to BPS income, it will do little more than cover costs and potential income forgone for the options taken.

We are all going to have to make some changes to adapt to production without BPS payments, needing a second job is going to become the norm for many!

Exactly.

I don't see this penny dropping with those who drew up the ELMS scheme. Farmer take-up will be abysmal imo.

 

[Farma Parma]

Majority of landlords are not going to budge on rent figures.

There gonna have too what is it again something ridiculous like 60% of UK farming is AHA rented
were all gonna be speaking to Land Agents soon enough

 

[GeorgeK]

I just hope the human cost of this period of adjustment isn't too high. There's too much stigma involved in agriculture about losing the family farm, in 'giving up', or feeling there's no way out or no other way to live.
This needs to be addressed so farmers can make rational, financially sensible decisions on what will be best for them and their family's health and wellbeing, not ending up in a dark place because of fear of gossip and being judged by the macho culture

 

[Farma Parma]

Exactly.

I don't see this penny dropping with those who drew up the ELMS scheme. Farmer take-up will be abysmal imo.

We will have to take up ELMS or were all history. ELMS might end up 75% of BPS/HLS/ELS/Mid Tier S or whatever else there currently is
but with one major flaw poss 20% all uk current ARABLE gone

 

[Farma Parma]

Whatever scale everyone is at give it 5years time you will be less & thats a FACT.
ELMS is making us farm less & produce less as i read it.
Ive been involved a 62farm test case ive seen where its all going

 

[Farma Parma]

also in 5 years time most of us left will only have 40% of the BPS sub we will collect later this year
Now thats worrying

 

[Timbo]

also in 5 years time most of us left will only have 40% of the BPS sub we will collect later this year
Now thats worrying

Not being funny, but why are people still burying their heads in the sand?

 

[Bossfarmer]

I can see no pk or soil fertility will be justifiable at all. And we all know where that ends. Very poor land. Probably the first thing to happen but this won’t under line the fact. Business overheads will need to be £250 ha less at least. Not sure any small or medium size farm will be able to do that. Some Rents are that already before any other costs.

interesting what you say about no p & k, will mixed farms putting plenty muck on get away with not buying p & k? ive often thought about cutting it out and just using straight N

 

[Bossfarmer]

There gonna have too what is it again something ridiculous like 60% of UK farming is AHA rented
were all gonna be speaking to Land Agents soon enough

How do these AHA tenancies work? are they reviewed regularly? do the landlords get to see your profits?

 

[GeorgeK]

Not being funny, but why are people still burying their heads in the sand?

It's like being institutionalised, the subsidy has been a way of life for so long it becomes hard to imagine life without it

 

[4course]

Rents are basically subsidies by the home farm bps so rents will be hit hard fast. Can’t see farmers subsidising there farming with other income.

As i look round there arnt many farmers left that purely farm their own patch and or havnt diversified into something other than commodity food production whatever the number of acres .Wether owners or tenants this will increase as the number of active farmers decrease in the future due to the economics of the job and an ageing agri population, we could well see a reduction in output as initially some take the queens shilling and plant trees or whatever .

 

[farmerm]

Majority of landlords are not going to budge on rent figures.

Well they may have to roll up their sleeves and work for nothing themselves then!

 

[farmerm]

We will have to take up ELMS or were all history. ELMS might end up 75% of BPS/HLS/ELS/Mid Tier S or whatever else there currently is
but with one major flaw poss 20% all uk current ARABLE gone

ELMS might make up 75% of what comes from BPS etc now but 70% of that 75% will be sucked out of actual farm income by costs incurred and income foregone.

 

[Hindsight]

Cant wait too see the day the LL is paying us to Farm there Land then... if thats the case... Yeessshhh
us AHA lads thats on Rent less than BPS iam referring too.
I see Trouble ahead... & lots of fighting. it wont go well none of this.

Going to be some big arguments over the residential rental value of the house and buildings. And other amenities. Try to force the AHA out. Fun and games.

 

[Farma Parma]

Not being funny, but why are people still burying their heads in the sand?

quite a few own land there 5 steps ahead of me & everyone else who own nowt

 

[Farma Parma]

How do these AHA tenancies work? are they reviewed regularly? do the landlords get to see your profits?

Good question its a mixed bag when i had tenancy swopped into my name & thats a fair few years ago now poss 20 even.
That incured a small increase.
Then twice since every 3 to 5 years weve had similar ones & nothing for atleast 6 years now,
there is no grounds at all to put it up last few years am sure we would all agree there, job has been so up n down how could you?
If at any point in next 12months they do this we will be fighting for a decrease straight away.
Just as id pretty much say we will probs be serving notice on them at some point next yeat knowing whats coming with the BPS deductions
Hellish this has too go on but Law is Law & for once its on our side, this is very rare mind.