Does Barnier really represent what national governments want out of a leaving deal or are some of them cursing him?

[Ashtree]

Interesting, not altogether right, but interesting... we agree in re consequences and you nearly gave an answer too (careful now), let's try again, going 'back to basics':

1) If it's alright for someone criticising another to have done what they are criticising, why isn't it alright for the one being criticised to do it?

and...

2) What will the ROI do when it's masters won't cough up the readies post New Year?

1. Yes ..... I think, as I’m not entirely sure I have got my head around that tongue twister.. .

2. Pandemic aside, we are the fastest growing economy in Europe. This is in fact, a highly dynamic, outward looking economy, and indeed society. Very, very, very, far removed from the view many on your side of the water display. We have ALL of the capacity, attributes and abilities, necessary to once again reboot our economy, and we will do so. By the way, we are net contributors to EU, not recipients! Rather than need more cash from EU, we will actually probably just pay more. So be it. It’s a good investment long term. BUT, as I keep pointing out to you, all hypothetical, as Boris will do the U turn!

 

[Farmer1001]

An easy cop out, well done, not in the least predictable, or original... It really means you don't mind reading longer posts that you agree with, but run away when you don't and are challenged.

So, make a point opposing part of HMG's Brexit handling, or supporting the EU's that you think you can defend. If I agree I'll say so and explain why, if not I'll raise the faults of your attempt and explain why an alternative is the case. I'll admit that I think you won't.

Or, stop being a time waster, contrarian or whatever other term you think might glamourise remoaning.


But soft! What wind from yonder ars*hole breaks? Can it be an answer to any of the questions that have been asked of him? No, he's too scared for that and hasn't got anything to offer that's even remotely credible...

Let's try again, come on or you're a chicken: What is that mighty bastion of independent economic might and wisdom - that's the ROI, don't you know - going to do when its 'big' friends don't give it lots of money in the event of what they have called a truly disastrous WTO / GATT Brexit?

Give us a clue, just a hint, please...

No Dan, I simply know “who’s” sermon is worth listening to. And for avoidance of doubt I don’t read yours if they stretch more than 4 lines.

 

[Danllan]

1. Yes ..... I think, as I’m not entirely sure I have got my head around that tongue twister.. .

2. Pandemic aside, we are the fastest growing economy in Europe. This is in fact, a highly dynamic, outward looking economy, and indeed society. Very, very, very, far removed from the view many on your side of the water display. We have ALL of the capacity, attributes and abilities, necessary to once again reboot our economy, and we will do so. By the way, we are net contributors to EU, not recipients! Rather than need more cash from EU, we will actually probably just pay more. So be it. It’s a good investment long term. BUT, as I keep pointing out to you, all hypothetical, as Boris will do the U turn!

Curiouser and curiouser... You think hypocrisy is alright, for the EU, really? Well, I suppose that's honest - but utterly indefensible.

Pandemic aside, I'm well aware of your country's published economic figures and I've not said that the ROI isn't a net contributor to the EU, it certainly is, at the moment. But Dr Varadkar himself, when he was your PM, said many times that no deal with the UK could be disastrous, for the ROI and - he said - for the UK. Now, I've seen figures ranging from a couple of percent up to the high teens as for how hard your economy will be hit, add in the pandemic as well... but, fine, if you don't need the help, good for you. Especially so since the promised cash from your masters won't be coming now... u-turn anyone?

No Dan, I simply know the sermons worth listening to. And for avoidance of doubt I don’t read yours if they stretch more than 4 lines.

You know what is 'worth listening to' before hearing it? Says it all...

 

[wanton dwarf]

1. Yes ..... I think, as I’m not entirely sure I have got my head around that tongue twister.. .

2. Pandemic aside, we are the fastest growing economy in Europe. This is in fact, a highly dynamic, outward looking economy, and indeed society. Very, very, very, far removed from the view many on your side of the water display. We have ALL of the capacity, attributes and abilities, necessary to once again reboot our economy, and we will do so. By the way, we are net contributors to EU, not recipients! Rather than need more cash from EU, we will actually probably just pay more. So be it. It’s a good investment long term. BUT, as I keep pointing out to you, all hypothetical, as Boris will do the U turn!

Point 2) is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever heard you say.

Ireland has probably one of the worst modern history concerning religion, gay rights and all the "Sins" present in Catholism .. the pretense that Ireland is surpassed other more Liberal societies over the past few years is cretinous and again demonstrates your much vaunted ego.

Ireland is still yet to throw off the shackles of religion .. after a few 100 years you MIGHT be where the UK is .. MIGHT.

 

[Danllan]

Point 2) is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever heard you say.

Ireland has probably one of the worst modern history concerning religion, gay rights and all the "Sins" present in Catholism .. the pretense that Ireland is surpassed other more Liberal societies over the past few years is cretinous and again demonstrates your much vaunted ego.

Ireland is still yet to throw off the shackles of religion .. after a few 100 years you MIGHT be where the UK is .. MIGHT.

If you have his number, just don't answer.

As for the rest, we agree that Ashy is an A1 t!t, but you shouldn't paint the rest of the people there with the same brush.

There certainly is a lot of deference to the Catholic Church in some people, and even to a local level in some places, but most people I know and know of over there - including family - are agnostic or atheists, most of the remainder being 'lapsed'.

The current economy of the ROI is a world away from that of even the 90s; obviously nowhere near as great as Ashy claims, but what would you expect him to write? It's a well-functioning Western economy, nothing spectacular but generally nothing to be ashamed of either.

Ashy's failing, aside from the vitriol and fear, is to pretend that the ROI is a political relevance in the EU and that it is still a democracy, that's all.

 

[Farmer1001]

Curiouser and curiouser... You think hypocrisy is alright, for the EU, really? Well, I suppose that's honest - but utterly indefensible.

Pandemic aside, I'm well aware of your country's published economic figures and I've not said that the ROI isn't a net contributor to the EU, it certainly is, at the moment. But Dr Varadkar himself, when he was your PM, said many times that no deal with the UK could be disastrous, for the ROI and - he said - for the UK. Now, I've seen figures ranging from a couple of percent up to the high teens as for how hard your economy will be hit, add in the pandemic as well... but, fine, if you don't need the help, good for you. Especially so since the promised cash from your masters won't be coming now... u-turn anyone?


You know what is 'worth listening to' before hearing it? Says it all...

Good observation, edited for your benefit .

 

[Ashtree]

If you have his number, just don't answer.

As for the rest, we agree that Ashy is an A1 t!t, but you shouldn't paint the rest of the people there with the same brush.

There certainly is a lot of deference to the Catholic Church in some people, and even to a local level in some places, but most people I know and know of over there - including family - are agnostic or atheists, most of the remainder being 'lapsed'.

The current economy of the ROI is a world away from that of even the 90s; obviously nowhere near as great as Ashy claims, but what would you expect him to write? It's a well-functioning Western economy, nothing spectacular but generally nothing to be ashamed of either.

Ashy's failing, aside from the vitriol and fear, is to pretend that the ROI is a political relevance in the EU and that it is still a democracy, that's all.

Ah, bless him! I was expecting a genuine curve ball from him, since I highlighted his self exposure as an avid BBC watcher! I also suspect he may have an occasional latte, over athorough read on the Observer! But perhaps I’m wrong on the second bit, so don’t give up completely on him just yet!

Was it Shakespeare penned the line “the lady doth protest too much”? From Hamlet, I seem to recall.

 

[wanton dwarf]

If you have his number, just don't answer.

As for the rest, we agree that Ashy is an A1 t!t, but you shouldn't paint the rest of the people there with the same brush.

There certainly is a lot of deference to the Catholic Church in some people, and even to a local level in some places, but most people I know and know of over there - including family - are agnostic or atheists, most of the remainder being 'lapsed'.

The current economy of the ROI is a world away from that of even the 90s; obviously nowhere near as great as Ashy claims, but what would you expect him to write? It's a well-functioning Western economy, nothing spectacular but generally nothing to be ashamed of either.

Ashy's failing, aside from the vitriol and fear, is to pretend that the ROI is a political relevance in the EU and that it is still a democracy, that's all.

I'm not painting Irish people as bad.

Any civilisation which has lived under extreme rules will carry over cultural practises when those rules are relaxed, they may also oscillate between being too liberal and vice versa - we all know it from the legacy of WW1 & 2 in the UK. Less so for religion which has long ceased to rule our lives.

We all live in the now by the standards are fathers and mothers instilled within us and modified somewhat by soceity.

The problem of the economy of Ireland is two fold - firstly it is controlled by outside forces which are in Ireland by circumstance not due to the inate abilities of the Irish population. Secondly the proven tendancy of the Irish to over extend themselves - which they should now be fearful of enough to moderate themselves (with luck).

 

[Danllan]

I'm not painting Irish people as bad.

Any civilisation which has lived under extreme rules will carry over cultural practises when those rules are relaxed, they may also oscillate between being too liberal and vice versa - we all know it from the legacy of WW1 & 2 in the UK. Less so for religion which has long ceased to rule our lives.

We all live in the now by the standards are fathers and mothers instilled within us and modified somewhat by soceity.

The problem of the economy of Ireland is two fold - firstly it is controlled by outside forces which are in Ireland by circumstance not due to the inate abilities of the Irish population. Secondly the proven tendancy of the Irish to over extend themselves - which they should now be fearful of enough to moderate themselves (with luck).

Hmm... I'd be the last to write that the ROI hasn't had some ridiculous failures in economic terms, social too. But I can think of many examples, within my own personal experience rather than just 'heard of', of businesses there that are superb - by that I mean well-run and successful locally, nationally and even internationally. And, as far as I am aware, that extrapolates across much of the country.

The ROI is most definitely a mere pawn both economically and politically, but I'd argue that its people - as a whole - are now a damn sight more wary of and savvy to economic problems that was the case pre-bubble, literally once bitten, twice shy, so I think it unlikely that over-confidence there is a failing we'll see much of in at least the near-future.

Don't conflate little Ashy's and lovely Leo's terrier-like attempts to 'bite' above the ROI's weight as a national failing, from all I've seen neither represent what Ashy might call your average 'Paddy'.

Writing of @Ashtree, and assuming he isn't a teenager somewhere outside Moscow, could this be the very fellow, unmasked and revealed to the world? (the coincidence in psychological profile is eerie... )

 

[Ashtree]

I'm not painting Irish people as bad.

Any civilisation which has lived under extreme rules will carry over cultural practises when those rules are relaxed, they may also oscillate between being too liberal and vice versa - we all know it from the legacy of WW1 & 2 in the UK. Less so for religion which has long ceased to rule our lives.

We all live in the now by the standards are fathers and mothers instilled within us and modified somewhat by soceity.

The problem of the economy of Ireland is two fold - firstly it is controlled by outside forces which are in Ireland by circumstance not due to the inate abilities of the Irish population. Secondly the proven tendancy of the Irish to over extend themselves - which they should now be fearful of enough to moderate themselves (with luck).

Which extreme rules do guy refer to?

 

[Henarar]

Hmm... I'd be the last to write that the ROI hasn't had some ridiculous failures in economic terms, social too. But I can think of many examples, within my own personal experience rather than just 'heard of', of businesses there that are superb - by that I mean well-run and successful locally, nationally and even internationally. And, as far as I am aware, that extrapolates across much of the country.

The ROI is most definitely a mere pawn both economically and politically, but I'd argue that its people - as a whole - are now a damn sight more wary of and savvy to economic problems that was the case pre-bubble, literally once bitten, twice shy, so I think it unlikely that over-confidence there is a failing we'll see much of in at least the near-future.

Don't conflate little Ashy's and lovely Leo's terrier-like attempts to 'bite' above the ROI's weight as a national failing, from all I've seen neither represent what Ashy might call your average 'Paddy'.

Writing of @Ashtree, and assuming he isn't a teenager somewhere outside Moscow, could this be the very fellow, unmasked and revealed to the world? (the coincidence in psychological profile is eerie... )

Goodness how did you track him down?

 

[Danllan]

Goodness how did you track him down?

He's been married to a second cousin of mine for some years now; right under my nose...

 

[Ashtree]

Goodness how did you track him down?

Look, it’s understandable if not quite ideal. I’m sure your are a fine fellow, even the the midget is also probably a fine fellow, underneath that is the scourge of the “little Englander” outlook. That you know, is what drags you down, and feebles what otherwise might be a functional view of the great wide world. Travel out a bit, and I’m sure you can shake off the curse.
But the other fellow on the respectable side of the Wye, as a Celt, is a total aberration! One does wonder what happened to him? It’s doubtful if any treatment not to mention a bit of travel, can do anything for him. It’s a sheep thing I guess!

 

[Henarar]

Oh dear
Someone don't like being tracked down

 

[Treemover]

Being part of the Eu isn’t perfect. But I think Ireland is better off for it.
The UK too, but time will tell.
I don’t know if Boris has a deal or trick up his sleeve, or whether a no deal brexit will set the UK back.

Part of me wonders is this really about Northern Ireland; and this is just spin to make it look like the UK mainland did its best?

 

[Muck Spreader]

Being part of the Eu isn’t perfect. But I think Ireland is better off for it.
The UK too, but time will tell.
I don’t know if Boris has a deal or trick up his sleeve, or whether a no deal brexit will set the UK back.

Part of me wonders is this really about Northern Ireland; and this is just spin to make it look like the UK mainland did its best?

I certainly think Ireland has benefited from it's membership as have many European countries. Strangely, some of the UK population don't see it that way, despite the disproportionate influence the UK has had on the evolution of the EU. They now don't like the thing they have created, by pretending it was all actually constructed by some nasty foreigners whose only objective really was to destroy the UK. But as we are now witnessing, they don't need foreign help to achieve that.

 

[Treemover]

 

[Henarar]

I certainly think Ireland has benefited from it's membership as have many European countries. Strangely, some of the UK population don't see it that way, despite the disproportionate influence the UK has had on the evolution of the EU. They now don't like the thing they have created, by pretending it was all actually constructed by some nasty foreigners whose only objective really was to destroy the UK. But as we are now witnessing, they don't need foreign help to achieve that.

yep your right some of the population don't like the EU our own successive remainer governments helped create, they should have thought on shouldn't they but they didn't so we told them we didn't think much of their handy work now they have to sort it all out, should have done what was right in the first place shouldn't they not just what they thought was right for them, all for themselves and their own cushy number after they get kicked out of domestic politics, well they got found out with their pathetic over priced gravy train didn't they, feck them

 

[Muck Spreader]

yep your right some of the population don't like the EU our own successive remainer governments helped create, they should have thought on shouldn't they but they didn't so we told them we didn't think much of their handy work now they have to sort it all out, should have done what was right in the first place shouldn't they not just what they thought was right for them, all for themselves and their own cushy number after they get kicked out of domestic politics, well they got found out with their pathetic over priced gravy train didn't they, feck them

Meum punctum est proven.

 

[Henarar]

don't you

Meum punctum est proven.

don't you swere at me like that