Enzo and Heptavac....??

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
If that has not grabbed the attention of one or two, I'll be shocked ;)

I am due to Heptavac in about 10-14 days, and the prophylactic dose of Alamycin* to deal with any residual Enzo, is due at around the same time. Any potential issues in doing them around the same time, but probs NOT the same day. Thought maybe Alamycin first, then leave it 5 days before Hep.

Any thoughts? I am scanning this week, and did think use the AB then, but maybe a tad too soon...


* recommended by my Vet, following an enzo outbreak last year.
 
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neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
If that has not grabbed the attention of one or two, I'll be shocked ;-)

I am due to Heptavac in about 10-14 days, and the prophylactic dose of Alamycin* to deal with any residual Enzo, is due at around the same time. Any potential issues in doing them around the same time, but probs NOT the same day. Thought maybe Alamycin first, then leave it 5 days before Hep.

Any thoughts? I am scanning this week, and did think use the AB then, but maybe a tad too soon...


* recommended by my Vet, following and enzo outbreak last year.

Why not just do them on the same day, if the timing’s right. Save the stress of handling them twice.
 

Jimdog1

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Devon
If that has not grabbed the attention of one or two, I'll be shocked ;)

I am due to Heptavac in about 10-14 days, and the prophylactic dose of Alamycin* to deal with any residual Enzo, is due at around the same time. Any potential issues in doing them around the same time, but probs NOT the same day. Thought maybe Alamycin first, then leave it 5 days before Hep.

Any thoughts? I am scanning this week, and did think use the AB then, but maybe a tad too soon...


* recommended by my Vet, following an enzo outbreak last year.
At the risk of veering off topic, I wonder why your vet is prescribing prophylactic Alamycin for Enzo when there is an effective vaccine available 🤔 (apologies inadvance!)
 

Jimdog1

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Devon
Was with a friend the other day, he enzovax’s yet vet had prescribed alamycin for all ewes as they come into the sheds. 3,000 head 😮
I can tell you that no vet around me would prescribe Alamycin prophylacticly. How can that be justified?
 

yellowbelly

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
N.Lincs
If that has not grabbed the attention of one or two, I'll be shocked ;)

I am due to Heptavac in about 10-14 days, and the prophylactic dose of Alamycin* to deal with any residual Enzo, is due at around the same time. Any potential issues in doing them around the same time, but probs NOT the same day. Thought maybe Alamycin first, then leave it 5 days before Hep.

Any thoughts? I am scanning this week, and did think use the AB then, but maybe a tad too soon...


* recommended by my Vet, following an enzo outbreak last year.
May not have understood your post properly, but if you're scanning this week, I'm guessing you start lambing about the beginning of April??

Is your Heptavac optimum time not more like the start of March rather than the start of Feb (10-14 days time, as in your OP)??
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
At the risk of veering off topic, I wonder why your vet is prescribing prophylactic Alamycin for Enzo when there is an effective vaccine available 🤔 (apologies inadvance!)

The OP had an Enzootic storm last year, which means that some ewes will have become infected then and go on to abort this year. Vaccinating will have hopefully stopped any new infections, but prophylactic LA as a one off, will help to prevent some of those infected last year from aborting now.

In that scenario, I would be looking to do the same, and playing Merry hell with the vets if they disagreed.
It’s a very different thing from advocating annual prophylactic treatment in place of vaccination, as plenty have been doing.
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
May not have understood your post properly, but if you're scanning this week, I'm guessing you start lambing about the beginning of April??

Is your Heptavac optimum time not more like the start of March rather than the start of Feb (10-14 days time, as in your OP)??
2/3 week March for lambing, so yes, too soon for Hep. just yet, but just trying to get a handle on timing of the AB and what have you. TBH I am wanting to get the AB's in teh ewes asap, seen some suggestions that 2 doses of LA can be useful....

BUT, I am reluctant, as the numbers would suggest that with the ewes that contracted enzo last year and hopefully, a successful vaccine program, underlying levels will be low... 🤞
 
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steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
The OP had an Enzootic storm last year, which means that some ewes will have become infected then and go on to abort this year. Vaccinating will have hopefully stopped any new infections, but prophylactic LA as a one off, will help to prevent some of those infected last year from aborting now.

In that scenario, I would be looking to do the same, and playing Merry hell with the vets if they disagreed.
It’s a very different thing from advocating annual prophylactic treatment in place of vaccination, as plenty have been doing.
This.

Flock was all vaccinated this Summer, but as you say, the infection will be in some of the ewes now and can also still be found in some ewes that had it last year apparently....

As far as I am concerned, the few quid on bottles of LA is peanuts. Saves on the knacker bill if nothing else:cautious:
 
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Jimdog1

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Devon
The OP had an Enzootic storm last year, which means that some ewes will have become infected then and go on to abort this year. Vaccinating will have hopefully stopped any new infections, but prophylactic LA as a one off, will help to prevent some of those infected last year from aborting now.

In that scenario, I would be looking to do the same, and playing Merry hell with the vets if they disagreed.
It’s a very different thing from advocating annual prophylactic treatment in place of vaccination, as plenty have been doing.
OK. I had a problem with Enzo last year. We jabbed everything with alamycin ( some of them twice due to lambing period) and subsequently vaccinated in the autumn. Would that cover all base's or should I be asking vet about treating with alamycin at housing?
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
OK. I had a problem with Enzo last year. We jabbed everything with alamycin ( some of them twice due to lambing period) and subsequently vaccinated in the autumn. Would that cover all base's or should I be asking vet about treating with alamycin at housing?

Personally, I would, just for this year. The vaccine is incredibly effective at stopping new infections, but some previously infected will still abort apparently.
Economically, you don’t need to save many lambs to pay for the cost of it. Ethically, you are treating established infection this year. No doubt some vets might argue with that one though, being under pressure to reduce AB use.
 

Jimdog1

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Devon
Personally, I would, just for this year. The vaccine is incredibly effective at stopping new infections, but some previously infected will still abort apparently.
Economically, you don’t need to save many lambs to pay for the cost of it. Ethically, you are treating established infection this year. No doubt some vets might argue with that one though, being under pressure to reduce AB use.
Thank you Neil, I will ask the question. 👍
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Endemic in some of the flock or the area...?

The Ministry vet last year said that there was evidence of enzo spread, from animals and birds picking up and moving foetal material and dead lambs about.

I’ve restarted enzo vacs again this year for that very reason. Neighbour had an outbreak in naive ewes last year and it only needs a crow to drop a bit of abortive material in our fields to start it all off again. Enzo in a naive/closed flock would make the cost of vaccination almost irrelevant, going by our experience from 30 years ago when a neighbour’s aborting ewe was ushered into our in-lamb ewes by a helpful Walker.:(
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
What does the vet say re timing of AB?

If it's ASAP, why not do 'em when scanning and do Hept at usual time?
It all seems a bit "suck and see" on timings, as is the use of LA in a flock in a storm!

My vet was of the view it was worth a few quid but there was nothing concrete, and there was no quantified evidence... However user feedback suggested was that it's worth doing...

I felt from a lot of reading up, that the LA showed some benefit, as I was seeing live/dead lambs and a few weaker lambs (who survived) which might have been the result of the LA from 4r weeks before. Without maybe more deaths...??
 
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steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
I’ve restarted enzo vacs again this year for that very reason. Neighbour had an outbreak in naive ewes last year and it only needs a crow to drop a bit of abortive material in our fields to start it all off again. Enzo in a naive/closed flock would make the cost of vaccination almost irrelevant, going by our experience from 30 years ago when a neighbour’s aborting ewe was ushered into our in-lamb ewes by a helpful Walker.:(
I was chatting last Summer with a friend who has a modest flock, who found out the hard way what enzo could do a few years back... Apparently, he now runs a largely closed and vaccinated flock, with any introductions in isolation until wormed and vaccinated for enzo and toxo.
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
I’ve restarted enzo vacs again this year for that very reason. Neighbour had an outbreak in naive ewes last year and it only needs a crow to drop a bit of abortive material in our fields to start it all off again. Enzo in a naive/closed flock would make the cost of vaccination almost irrelevant, going by our experience from 30 years ago when a neighbour’s aborting ewe was ushered into our in-lamb ewes by a helpful Walker.:(
Can easily see a crow carting material a fair way, and something like a buzzard or kite, could pick up a small carcass easily enough and go a long way :(
 

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