Extra costs for pedigree bulls

[Henarar]

Over the years on TFF extra costs for producing pedigree cattle has been discussed, I have made no secret of the fact that I didn't think the extra cost was that much over the cost for society membership and animal registration fees. I thought that over the years as we produced more pedigree animals more costs would become apparent but they haven't.
I have set the poll for bulls but the questions can apply to pedigree breeding females just as much

So what do others think the extra costs are ?
Are these costs unavoidable or down to the way you like to do things ?
Should these costs be passed on to the purchaser of the animal in a higher price even if they are avoidable ?

 

[organicguy]

When selling you need to separate costs and value.

 

[Tim G]

When selling you need to separate costs and value.

Could say the same about buying.

 

[Purli R]

Same with anything thou is it not,oh we just need this,we just need that, we"re pedigree dont you know,oh we need a fancy Bull shed etc etc. @Henarar Ours dont cost much more than if we had a herd of sucklers finishing them at 18month 2yrs.

 

[puppet]

Sounds like the pedigree secret world is about to implode.
I wouldn't say too much more if I were you.
Surely the extra costs are all that feed to make some ordinary genetics into something special?

 

[Agrivator]

Extra costs include paying high prices for stock bulls and breeding females.

 

[Henarar]

Same with anything thou is it not,oh we just need this,we just need that, we"re pedigree dont you know,oh we need a fancy Bull shed etc etc. @Henarar Ours dont cost much more than if we had a herd of sucklers finishing them at 18month 2yrs.

nor do ours, they are kept in with the cross bred/commercial suckers as some folk have seen

 

[Henarar]

Extra costs include paying high prices for stock bulls and breeding females.

maybe cost for breeding females when you first start a pedigree herd will be higher than non pedigree but after that you tend to get plenty of heifer calves to keep as replacements as well as bulls to sell.
you need a stock bull for a commercial herd.

 

[JP1]

Over the years on TFF extra costs for producing pedigree cattle has been discussed, I have made no secret of the fact that I didn't think the extra cost was that much over the cost for society membership and animal registration fees. I thought that over the years as we produced more pedigree animals more costs would become apparent but they haven't.
I have set the poll for bulls but the questions can apply to pedigree breeding females just as much

So what do others think the extra costs are ?
Are these costs unavoidable or down to the way you like to do things ?
Should these costs be passed on to the purchaser of the animal in a higher price even if they are avoidable ?

Job to say

Anything you halter train male or female probably wouldn't cover costed time.

Bull inspection costs (inc DNA test) are £150 for my breed

If you don't ring as a claf and they don't shape up for a bull later, you've the added hassle of entires hanging about

With purebred / pedigree you also have to factor the cost of the purebred cow if she's a racehorse type breed and also the loss of hybrid vigour which I think is quite a lot

 

[juke]

this could be a piece of string thread it depends on so many variables , ie its gonna cost a breeder more on average to produce a charolais or limousin bull over say a blonde if you just factor in all the back breeding thats in a bull im lookin at one of ours pedigree just back to grandparents in stock bulls and some cows we have bought in the past theres 40000 gns in his pedigree just to his grandparents how do you quantify that in costs...
im looking at another one thats got by ai at 50 quid a straw we served 12 cows n got 6 in calf from first service, so that makes that calf 100 quid plus the ai and flask charges to bring in and another 20 grand in pedigree back on the dam line to grand parents,

i would doubt very much that id be talking about as much money if these were commercially ran without the intent of breeding pedigree animals. least its not as bonkers as the pedigree sheep run

 

[M-J-G]

@Henarar why do pedigree bulls need to cost more? Why can't they be cheaper and why isn't there an option on the poll for that.
Not think of that?

For a long time I have sold bulls that cost less to produce than their mates that were finished as steers or fattened bulls.

This is not to be confused with them being worth less.
Some people produce bulls cheaply and sell them cheaply, which is crazy IMO and poor marketing.
Just because you produce something cheaply doesn't mean it should devalue it.

 

[Henarar]

Job to say

Anything you halter train male or female probably wouldn't cover costed time.

Bull inspection costs (inc DNA test) are £150 for my breed

If you don't ring as a claf and they don't shape up for a bull later, you've the added hassle of entires hanging about

With purebred / pedigree you also have to factor the cost of the purebred cow if she's a racehorse type breed and also the loss of hybrid vigour which I think is quite a lot

Never had a buyer yet that was worried about halter training or having a ring in its nose but maybe different for other breeds.

The other are good points though you can always get a young bull that don't shape up cut, I know there is a cost to that but its not to bad

 

[JP1]

Never had a buyer yet that was worried about halter training or having a ring in its nose but maybe different for other breeds.

The other are good points though you can always get a young bull that don't shape up cut, I know there is a cost to that but its not to bad

The other "cost" that even some pedigree breeders seem to ignore is health screening . They might do the odd vaccination but I'm constantly amazed by some who ring for stock or wish to sell and don't seem that fazed by health status. Temperament, conformation and health status are much higher up my list when buying than bonny haeds

 

[Henarar]

this could be a piece of string thread it depends on so many variables , ie its gonna cost a breeder more on average to produce a charolais or limousin bull over say a blonde if you just factor in all the back breeding thats in a bull im lookin at one of ours pedigree just back to grandparents in stock bulls and some cows we have bought in the past theres 40000 gns in his pedigree just to his grandparents how do you quantify that in costs...
im looking at another one thats got by ai at 50 quid a straw we served 12 cows n got 6 in calf from first service, so that makes that calf 100 quid plus the ai and flask charges to bring in and another 20 grand in pedigree back on the dam line to grand parents,

i would doubt very much that id be talking about as much money if these were commercially ran without the intent of breeding pedigree animals. least its not as bonkers as the pedigree sheep run

yes there is the initial cost of breeding stock as I put above and that has to be divided by what they produce but you must get heifer calves, are they not as good for you to use as what you can buy ?

 

[Henarar]

The other "cost" that even some pedigree breeders seem to ignore is health screening . They might do the odd vaccination but I'm constantly amazed by some who ring for stock or wish to sell and don't seem that fazed by health status. Temperament, conformation and health status are much higher up my list when buying than bonny haeds

Depends on the buyer if they buy replacement cows/heifers in market and don't worry about the health status of them then they are not going to be to fussed about the health status of the bull they buy to serve them, in fact a bull that is naïve to everything and not vaccinated maybe detrimental ?
if they want the bull to go to a stud on the other hand they will want loads of tests done.

bonny heads would not be high on my list either but its nice to like the look of what you own

 

[Whitepeak]

Depends on the system. Selling a bull out of the fattening pen at 16mths then not a lot extra, but selling a halter trained, rung, health tested bull at 2yr old then quite a lot more!
Keeping them that second winter is the biggest cost in my opinion, they eat some grub when they get to that age. And then you get into what you feed them. We keep ours ticking over quite cheap on good haylage and rearer nuts. But I know others who shovel 500quid a tonne coarse mixtures into them with all the extra mins and yeasts and other additives!

 

[Henarar]

Depends on the system. Selling a bull out of the fattening pen at 16mths then not a lot extra, but selling a halter trained, rung, health tested bull at 2yr old then quite a lot more!
Keeping them that second winter is the biggest cost in my opinion, they eat some grub when they get to that age. And then you get into what you feed them. We keep ours ticking over quite cheap on good haylage and rearer nuts. But I know others who shovel 500quid a tonne coarse mixtures into them with all the extra mins and yeasts and other additives!

some of those costs would come in the avoidable category and be just down to how some folks like to do it
you said so yourself in saying that you feed yours on haylage a rearer nuts much the same as you may give a store steer, I take it yours are perfectly good bulls despite not being fed all the other expensive stuff ?
How many farmer buyers need a bull halter trained or a ring in them ? none of the pedigree bulls we have bought have been halter trained a couple had rings but we never used them

 

[Whitepeak]

some of those costs would come in the avoidable category and be just down to how some folks like to do it
you said so yourself in saying that you feed yours on haylage a rearer nuts much the same as you may give a store steer, I take it yours are perfectly good bulls despite not being fed all the other expensive stuff ?
How many farmer buyers need a bull halter trained or a ring in them ? none of the pedigree bulls we have bought have been halter trained a couple had rings but we never used them

Yeah, they are all well fleshed and ready for work. I have the philosophy of rearing a bull for a long and healthy life, and as such I'm not keen on pushing them too hard.
If you are entering society sales they all need ringing and halter training. I like to have atleast halter tied a bull, it gives me a good indication of his temperament and confidence that he'll be quiet in his new home. And I thought it was law that bulls sold in a market needed to be rung?!

 

[Henarar]

Yeah, they are all well fleshed and ready for work. I have the philosophy of rearing a bull for a long and healthy life, and as such I'm not keen on pushing them too hard.
If you are entering society sales they all need ringing and halter training. I like to have atleast halter tied a bull, it gives me a good indication of his temperament and confidence that he'll be quiet in his new home. And I thought it was law that bulls sold in a market needed to be rung?!

No sold one in market the other day with no ring
Society sales could well be classed as an unnecessary cost too

 

[cows r us]

All our cattle are pedigree but run on a commercial basis. The only extra costs that are essential are registration and dna testing. We go further with ours with regular weighing, taking part in a health scheme ect. But many commercial herds would also be doing this. I guess when first setting up a herd the cost of buying in stock is higher. We are a closed herd so only buy in a few bulls, the price of which would be higher than a commercial bull.
I think costs are more to do with the way the herd is run as opposed to whether they are commercial or pedigree.