Fight fire with fire ?

[kiwi pom]

I don't really get all this fuss about farmers having to fight back. Fight back against what? Are people going to stop eating?
Can agriculture really be green and carbon neutral (or whatever they call it) and still feed the planet? I'm guessing not but so what, we still have to eat, so farmers are just fine. Joe public doesn't care and doesn't need to know, As long as farmers are producing food as efficiently as possible, just get on with it and stop trying to win an argument

 

[Clive]

It is utterly depressing

Yet how many threads are there bemoaning their lot, there's no money in the game / costs are too high / prices are too low / subsidies / Brexit etc etc. The one common theme of all those threads is they all disintegrate into a squabble, but it doesn't seem like any are willing to adapt or change or heaven forbid - even take advantage of new opportunities . . .
It seems like UK Ag is just stuck in the halcyon days of the 50's or whenever it was & society has to accept that, rather than Ag adapting to changing society . . .

As an outsider looking in, I just shake my head in wonder at the differences in attitudes & resilience between our 2 countries. Why is that so ? Is it a hangover from peasantry / serfdom / tenants ? Is it that sense of "self entitlement" that seems to pervade every thread, that the public somehow "owe" them a living ? Is it so many years of control & regulation via subsidies, payments etc etc that they are incapable of any self initiative or adaptation ? Is it a loss of community & a case of every man for himself, rather than the greater good of the Ag industry in general ?

Pork sausages
Really ?

Can you imagine a campaign promoting U.K. Ag ?
The collective here would be arguing over what a "real" farmer is & wouldn't get past that . . .

FFS

Every hand wringing pizzle dampening angst ridden thread ( weather, Brexit, trade, prices etc ) is people either saying or getting all worked up about the impending political moment and how it will sort out all their business problems / send their business down the pan? So few are actually seriously looking at their, often many, options and PLANNING ahead

I'm sorry to say it, but I think you are a lone voice ( or at least, one that will face a lot of opposition & ridicule ) in your call for any concerted positive campaign for UK Ag to promote itself.
I sincerely wish you all the best, I know that whatever the future holds, you at least will be looking for the opportunities it holds.
As for the rest ?


Pork sausages


Really ?
Time for the blubbering children to grow a pair . . .

How much is a decent farm near you ?

I think I should move !

This lot are a lost cause that deserves what they will inevitably get

This thread has literally changed my thinking about British agriculture

 

[PaulNix]

The vegan argument is not bullet proof but they wining the battle with it , and will continue to do so while no fight back because we all to scared our counter argument is not bullet proof hiding away.

In what world are they winning the argument?

Do you not live in our world or look at the news, it is literally everywhere how red meat alone is killing the world and has been repeated so much that it is the go to starting point for any discussion, they don't start by asking if it is bad they are saying it is and what can we eat instead !! Even the defra scientists have liked posts saying eat less meat as it's killing the world ffs.

They don't have to win the argument with facts just repeat the lies often enough and the public will believe and that is all you need, it's a medium term game but if you let the young get brainwashed then long term it is lost.

They don't need to turn anyone into a Vegan, it isn't about that, they just need people to cut down eating red meat by enough and they get what they really want.

 

[Farmer Roy]

Do you not live in our world or look at the news, it is literally everywhere how red meat alone is killing the world and has been repeated so much that it is the go to starting point for any discussion, they don't start by asking if it is bad they are saying it is and what can we eat instead !! Even the defra scientists have liked posts saying eat less meat as it's killing the world ffs.

They don't have to win the argument with facts just repeat the lies often enough and the public will believe and that is all you need, it's a medium term game but if you let the young get brainwashed then long term it is lost.

They don't need to turn anyone into a Vegan, it isn't about that, they just need people to cut down eating red meat by enough and they get what they really want.

yes

 

[Farmer Roy]

How much is a decent farm near you ?

I think I should move !

This lot are a lost cause that deserves what they will inevitably get

This thread has literally changed my thinking about British agriculture

about $5000 / hectare

 

[SteveHants]

I don't really get all this fuss about farmers having to fight back. Fight back against what? Are people going to stop eating?
Can agriculture really be green and carbon neutral (or whatever they call it) and still feed the planet? I'm guessing not but so what, we still have to eat, so farmers are just fine. Joe public doesn't care and doesn't need to know, As long as farmers are producing food as efficiently as possible, just get on with it and stop trying to win an argument

I still think we should be promoting the industry and trying to farm as sustainably as possible.

I want to bring the best young minds into the industry and I think promotion plays an important role in that.

I do agree that this notion of a "battle" is hysterical nonsense, but also understand that certain places on the internet could give that impression if you wanted to confirm your suspicion that a battle is taking place.

 

[Clive]

If the na sayers put as much effort into something positive we would have a hell of a fight back , but no , anyone done anything yet ?

Pathetic isn’t it !

Most can even decide if they should press a retweet button or find a tenner to have an infographic printed fir their gate

My small kids do more to help themselves

 

[kiwi pom]

So what kind of forums do these vegan nutters inhabit? I might go hunting!

How many vegans do you actually know?
I found out a second cousin of mines vegan a couple of years ago. He's certainly not a nutter though and doesn't make a big thing of telling people about it. Although he will discuss it (quite sensibly) if you ask him.
I talked to him about it recently and found it fairly interesting, he researches everything VERY carefully and takes it very seriously but doesn't look down his nose at anyone who eats meat, Its just something he felt he needed to do.
It turns out he eats actual food, mostly veg, which is grown on a farm.
Just trying to point out that vegan doesn't always equal nutter.

 

[matthew]

Do you not live in our world or look at the news, it is literally everywhere how red meat alone is killing the world and has been repeated so much that it is the go to starting point for any discussion, they don't start by asking if it is bad they are saying it is and what can we eat instead !! Even the defra scientists have liked posts saying eat less meat as it's killing the world ffs.

They don't have to win the argument with facts just repeat the lies often enough and the public will believe and that is all you need, it's a medium term game but if you let the young get brainwashed then long term it is lost.

They don't need to turn anyone into a Vegan, it isn't about that, they just need people to cut down eating red meat by enough and they get what they really want.

Couldn't agree more.

The relentless media crush on livestock farming , headed by poster boy Packham and Moonbat and facilitated by Defra (allowing zTB to rampage through our cattle herds), the Guardian and BBC, has many tentacles. Apparently cattle and sheep alive or dead, are responsible for every ill this country faces, from flooding to carbon emmissions, methane to cancer.

So how come an industry producing such a small proportion of any perceived problem (10 per cent ?) is getting 90 per cent of the flack? And why?

And yes, we should fight back, in fact PR should be at the forefront, not chasing a lie from behind.

 

[SteveHants]

Do you not live in our world or look at the news, it is literally everywhere how red meat alone is killing the world and has been repeated so much that it is the go to starting point for any discussion, they don't start by asking if it is bad they are saying it is and what can we eat instead !! Even the defra scientists have liked posts saying eat less meat as it's killing the world ffs.

They don't have to win the argument with facts just repeat the lies often enough and the public will believe and that is all you need, it's a medium term game but if you let the young get brainwashed then long term it is lost.

They don't need to turn anyone into a Vegan, it isn't about that, they just need people to cut down eating red meat by enough and they get what they really want.

Did you read my chicken example? The broiler industry came under far more sustained attack than the red meat industry, not just by environmentalists but concerned meat eaters too.

What's the most popular protein source in this country?
Chicken, and we eat more and more of it.

The industry responded to criticism and promotes itself. Red meat can do the same. In fact, in this country, the best way to do this is to make use of the environmental argument to promote our pasture based systems.

 

[kiwi pom]

Do you not live in our world or look at the news, it is literally everywhere how red meat alone is killing the world and has been repeated so much that it is the go to starting point for any discussion, they don't start by asking if it is bad they are saying it is and what can we eat instead !! Even the defra scientists have liked posts saying eat less meat as it's killing the world ffs.

They don't have to win the argument with facts just repeat the lies often enough and the public will believe and that is all you need, it's a medium term game but if you let the young get brainwashed then long term it is lost.

They don't need to turn anyone into a Vegan, it isn't about that, they just need people to cut down eating red meat by enough and they get what they really want.

If people want to eat less red meat that's up to them. I don't see the vegan crowd making much headway though. McDonalds in town seems to be doing just fine.
I think the bulk of scientific opinion has remained the same for years. Eat a balanced diet, containing foods from all the food groups especially fruit and veg, not too much.

 

[Pond digger]

How many vegans do you actually know?
I found out a second cousin of mines vegan a couple of years ago. He's certainly not a nutter though and doesn't make a big thing of telling people about it. Although he will discuss it (quite sensibly) if you ask him.
I talked to him about it recently and found it fairly interesting, he researches everything VERY carefully and takes it very seriously but doesn't look down his nose at anyone who eats meat, Its just something he felt he needed to do.
It turns out he eats actual food, mostly veg, which is grown on a farm.
Just trying to point out that vegan doesn't always equal nutter.

Quite right, I was being a bit silly.

 

[kiwi pom]

Quite right, I was being a bit silly.

Yep I realise that.
There's plenty on here though that seem to think any vegetarian or vegan is a raving lunatic that's hates farmers, or anyone that doesn't eat beef or lamb every day somehow has it in for farmers.
At the end of the day you produce what the customer wants, if they want carrots, grow carrots.

 

[Canada Farmer]

Yes, just look at how US & Australian farmers use social media to their advantage. Private individuals. Small industry organisation. Grasses roots type stuff, large corporations & industry lobby groups.
No point waiting for the NFU ( does that stand for no fudgeing use ? ) to do something. Own it yourselves & step up, like the Petersons & others

Eh, not forgetting the Canadians!!!

 

[Canada Farmer]

Yep I realise that.
There's plenty on here though that seem to think any vegetarian or vegan is a raving lunatic that's hates farmers, or anyone that doesn't eat beef or lamb every day somehow has it in for farmers.
At the end of the day you produce what the customer wants, if they want carrots, grow carrots.

Actually the vegan from the Netherlands that I was having a discussion with was exactly just that, a delusionsl raving lunatic who hates farmers!!! No exaggeration either!!! In the end I refrained from replying as if he was a vegan nutter, there would be no chance of a rational debate and secondly some of what he said just didn't ring true and a touch "indoctrinated", so possibly just a keyboard warrior.....

 

[manhill]

Can't even buy normal orange squash these days. All squashes are now 'no added sugar'
Artificial sweeteners are added instead. Sugar is not pc anymore it seems.

 

[Hilly]

How much is a decent farm near you ?

I think I should move !

This lot are a lost cause that deserves what they will inevitably get

This thread has literally changed my thinking about British agriculture

Can I come as well , as you say lost cause.

 

[Top Tip.]

I think these loony left, vegan,climate change campaigners will burn themselves out,I have been following the posts on this wee lassie that is sailing to America and it has restored my faith in human nature, 90 odd % off the comments are pointing out how ridiculous she is and the carbon used in building her boat people are not as stupid as the vocal minority would have us believe.

 

[wanton dwarf]

At the end of the day you produce what the customer wants, if they want carrots, grow carrots.

This is the kind of thought process I would expect from a townie.

Not every farmer can grow carrots .. and it should be very obvious to most farmers that we are all inter linked.

I grow cereals which are not just used for humans but also for livestock.

If I was just growing food for humans then not only would I be financially poorer but the farm would be less efficient AND the cycle of nutrients flowing through the industry would be shrunk.

A similar situation occured in Veal carcasses in Europe .. lots of media about how ethically bad Veal was, the meat trade reacted and the situation since then has been some male calves treated as waste.

Farming should be about the long term best use/welfare of resources/livestock to create healthy food .. not pandering to fads created by media pundits at the expense of livestock welfare.

 

[wanton dwarf]

I think these loony left, vegan,climate change campaigners will burn themselves out,I have been following the posts on this wee lassie that is sailing to America and it has restored my faith in human nature, 90 odd % off the comments are pointing out how ridiculous she is and the carbon used in building her boat people are not as stupid as the vocal minority would have us believe.

The carbon used to build that multi million £ boat will be off the charts.