Generic vs R&D chems

[Farmer Fin]

Does anyone know of any independent trials comparing like for like products?
It seems like the big chem companies like to tell everyone their stuff is better and the major distributors like to go with that. I have a background in animal health where generics are probably more used than the R&D version due to having comparable efficacy and often better usability as well as cheaper.
Does anyone know what standards they need for registration of a generic compared to a R&D chem?

 

[yellow belly]

Niab tag
ahdb

 

[farenheit]

One thing to watch out for is the labels. For example Liberator has a wider field of crop registrations than some of the generics, likewise eamu’s. also the r&d companies will have done far more tank mix work.

I think the ultimate answer is ‘it depends’. Most are fine in my experience. With regards quality of packaging and ease of pouring etc, it depends how much you like your spray man!

 

[Brisel]

The generics only really have to contain the same active ingredients & doses. It's the adjuvants in the formulation that may vary and some molecules are hard to formulate well.

I'm not aware of any independent trials comparing generics/parallels against branded products but the AHDB, Green Crop Information (formerly CMI and now part of Beeswax) and NIAB TAG would be a good place to start. I can't see you getting impartial information anywhere else, especially not distributors nor manufacturers.

 

[deleted user 837354]

I could tell you which brands/products I would trust and those I would not but I would have to kill afterwards...

A lot of the non-'A list' chemical companies do make some really good products. The posher branded stuff sometimes has an advantage, sometimes not I would say. As Brisel said, it is in the formulation (and techincal backup) that the differences start.

Packaging, ease of use and compatibilities are also a major consideration these days. I used to use a slew of difference stuff, some A list and some not, but believe me, if there was ever an issue with something I would get a phone call from a spray contractor pretty quickly advising me of my folly when X wouldn't come out of a can or fudged their filters...!

 

[teslacoils]

I could tell you which brands/products I would trust and those I would not but I would have to kill afterwards...

Why not just tell us? The current "lumpy fert" thread is full of folk saying which fert is ace and which is crack. Let's have the benefit of your knowledge to avoid some duffers.

 

[Clive]

Some generics are actually better than the R&D product as they have had the benefit of time to develop better formulations

Clones (like life scientific make) are another category and are identical to the R&D product


im happy to use all the above, but what I will not use is parallels ......... way to much scope for counterfeiting

 

[Wigeon]

Only one solated incident, but I had been getting some rather iffy results from Gallup (or similar generic) with firebrand conditioner, so I splashed out on some roundup flex the other day. First time I've ever bought non generic gly, and to be honest quite a lot of what I buy across the board is generic.

Anyway, it was chuffing expensive (though not really in the scheme of things), but performance seemed to be in a different league in terms of rapidity of effect, not to mention rainfastness and cultivation interval claims. Certainly a damn sight cheaper than going back when el cheapo hasn't worked first time.

 

[Northern territory]

Only one solated incident, but I had been getting some rather iffy results from Gallup (or similar generic) with firebrand conditioner, so I splashed out on some roundup flex the other day. First time I've ever bought non generic gly, and to be honest quite a lot of what I buy across the board is generic.

Anyway, it was chuffing expensive (though not really in the scheme of things), but performance seemed to be in a different league in terms of rapidity of effect, not to mention rainfastness and cultivation interval claims. Certainly a damn sight cheaper than going back when el cheapo hasn't worked first time.

I think the roundup products are worth the extra nowadays, ever since the tallow amines were taken out the generic formulations certainly are not as good.

 

[Clive]

I can’t recall any generic glyphosate ever not working here - must have used tens of thousands litres over the years (thats a scary thought!)

don’t think i’ve ever actually used “Round-up”

 

[juke]

I think the roundup products are worth the extra nowadays, ever since the tallow amines were taken out the generic formulations certainly are not as good.

We feel the Monsanto branded glyphosates are worth the extra and do the job better than some of these cheaper end of the market generics.

 

[davidroberts30]

What's the price per liter of the expensive roundup ?

 

[Wigeon]

Think it was about 5.50 or thereabouts

 

[davidroberts30]

Think generic are about 2.50/3

 

[deleted user 837354]

We feel the Monsanto branded glyphosates are worth the extra and do the job better than some of these cheaper end of the market generics.

I would generally agree, the real McCoy is very good but there are other brands that I would rate very highly as well.

Kyleo is very good, as is/was Dakar- the 680 granulated product. What I would tend to avoid is the dirt cheap 360 stuff which I used to see about being peddled and I developed little faith in after seeing the results of it used on farm. Probably fine for the arable guys spraying a few little grass weeds and volunteers in stubbles, but that's an entirely different league to seeing the stuff used on permanent grassland loaded with docks and spear thistles- saw it several times. Farmer would go out and spray on boggo 360 and the grass would die in short order but the weeds would be alive and kicking within 2 weeks. It was for this reason I began to learn about where rates could be reduced and where they could not.

Two other products that spring to mind are good old pendimethalin and that other favourite, clomazone where I began to conclude you definitely get what you pay for with them.

I think if you stick with the mainstream manufacturers/distributors you won't generally go far wrong. People like FMC, Nufarm etc had pretty good technical backup in my experience and gave you as much confidence as the real big names did.

Yara's nutrient products as well- I can't remember having any complaints about those.

 

[Brisel]

I would agree with the above about how good the branded Roundup products are. I kept some Roundup Max at the back of the store for when I knew we had bad weather coming and needed to get it on. That said, the right dose of cheapo generic with the right adjuvant/conditioner still worked out as better value in the long run. Lower doses of the cheaper stuff take longer to work but as long as the dose is right for the weed species and it’s growth stage it will do the job. You don’t have to wait until the plant is visibly dead unless you need the biomass gone.

 

[Northern territory]

I can’t recall any generic glyphosate ever not working here - must have used tens of thousands litres over the years (thats a scary thought!)

don’t think i’ve ever actually used “Round-up”

They work but I think generally speaking you have to up the rates quite a bit and pay close attention to water hardness etc than before. Would say the Monsanto stuff is a bit more reliable at 2l/ha rates

 

[deleted user 837354]

They work but I think generally speaking you have to up the rates quite a bit and pay close attention to water hardness etc than before. Would say the Monsanto stuff is a bit more reliable at 2l/ha rates

Definitely a lot more margin for error in the posher formulations.

 

[David.]

Not much escapes the generic 360s as long as you stick to 3 litre ha rate.
Although I was impressed by Rdp Flex on some osr, at iirc only 1.5 litre, certainly looks more cost effective then.

 

[deleted user 837354]

Not much escapes the generic 360s as long as you stick to 3 litre ha rate.
Although I was impressed by Rdp Flex on some osr, at iirc only 1.5 litre, certainly looks more cost effective then.

Bingo.