How can anybody be bothered with charolais?

[Ltec]

The last 3 charolais calves we had all wouldn't suck the cows at birth. 2 different bulls. The last one was cavelands fenian. Born now 14 hours and still wont suck the cow. Itll suck her if i hold its head and turn the tit into her mouth and risk getting my brains knocked out but i cant hold it coz the calf is too strong and hurting my back. Its a big strong lively bull but pure dense.
The 1 before ended up on a drip or it would have died and the one before that had to be taken to the vet too.
Vets response was typical charolais, so it must be a problem with them.
Our limousins are up and sucking in an hour.
When the second one eventually sucked on the third day it only ever sucked the front 2 tits. If youve nothing else to do then it might suit but to have another job they dont work for us.
After vet bills and time and colostrum the big price at market doesn't look so good.

 

[Matthew Britton]

The last 3 charolais calves we had all wouldn't suck the cows at birth. 2 different bulls. The last one was cavelands fenian. Born now 14 hours and still wont suck the cow. Itll suck her if i hold its head and turn the tit into her mouth and risk getting my brains knocked out but i cant hold it coz the calf is too strong and hurting my back. Its a big strong lively bull but pure dense.
The 1 before ended up on a drip or it would have died and the one before that had to be taken to the vet too.
Vets response was typical charolais, so it must be a problem with them.
Our limousins are up and sucking in an hour.
When the second one eventually sucked on the third day it only ever sucked the front 2 tits. If youve nothing else to do then it might suit but to have another job they dont work for us.
After vet bills and time and colostrum the big price at market doesn't look so good.

And this is one of the main reasons that when we arrived herein the heart of Charolais country in September we bought a herd of Limousin cows!

 

[Qman]

This is the reason I stopped bulling my sucklers to Charolais. Lims and BBs now, they get up and suck.

 

[Spartacus]

We run a charolais bull on our sucklers, on the whole this year they've been up and lively enough to want to suck. Some can be dopey (can be said of most breeds) but they are doing well.

 

[Samcowman]

Using Charolais here for the second year with bigger numbers expected and having no problem that you talk of. Ours are polled if that makes any difference.

 

[Hilly]

I gave them up early nineties for same reasons , they make fantastic fat cattle but I never want to breed them again well truly scunnerd with them.

 

[shearerlad]

The last 3 charolais calves we had all wouldn't suck the cows at birth. 2 different bulls. The last one was cavelands fenian. Born now 14 hours and still wont suck the cow. Itll suck her if i hold its head and turn the tit into her mouth and risk getting my brains knocked out but i cant hold it coz the calf is too strong and hurting my back. Its a big strong lively bull but pure dense.
The 1 before ended up on a drip or it would have died and the one before that had to be taken to the vet too.
Vets response was typical charolais, so it must be a problem with them.
Our limousins are up and sucking in an hour.
When the second one eventually sucked on the third day it only ever sucked the front 2 tits. If youve nothing else to do then it might suit but to have another job they dont work for us.
After vet bills and time and colostrum the big price at market doesn't look so good.

Any chance that the char is more (or less) prone to TE issues such as iodine and selenium? Just thinking out loud really but if white faced sheep can’t deal copper maybe there is an issue with some cattle breeds.

 

[Chae1]

Sounds like a management problem, wrong cow, wrong choice of bull, wrong feeding pre calving.

Its very rarely the fault of the breed of bull. Which breed had highest averages at Stirling bull sales.

We've had all the problems you mention. Changing breed of cow made biggest difference to us. Remember pulling massive calves, cow and calf didn't get up for days. Big dopey calves. No life for anyone.

 

[M-J-G]

The last 3 charolais calves we had all wouldn't suck the cows at birth. 2 different bulls. The last one was cavelands fenian. Born now 14 hours and still wont suck the cow. Itll suck her if i hold its head and turn the tit into her mouth and risk getting my brains knocked out but i cant hold it coz the calf is too strong and hurting my back. Its a big strong lively bull but pure dense.
The 1 before ended up on a drip or it would have died and the one before that had to be taken to the vet too.
Vets response was typical charolais, so it must be a problem with them.
Our limousins are up and sucking in an hour.
When the second one eventually sucked on the third day it only ever sucked the front 2 tits. If youve nothing else to do then it might suit but to have another job they dont work for us.
After vet bills and time and colostrum the big price at market doesn't look so good.

Are you calving to other breeds too?
Is it a breed thing or are you having a nutritional problem?

 

[DB67]

The last 3 charolais calves we had all wouldn't suck the cows at birth. 2 different bulls. The last one was cavelands fenian. Born now 14 hours and still wont suck the cow. Itll suck her if i hold its head and turn the tit into her mouth and risk getting my brains knocked out but i cant hold it coz the calf is too strong and hurting my back. Its a big strong lively bull but pure dense.
The 1 before ended up on a drip or it would have died and the one before that had to be taken to the vet too.
Vets response was typical charolais, so it must be a problem with them.
Our limousins are up and sucking in an hour.
When the second one eventually sucked on the third day it only ever sucked the front 2 tits. If youve nothing else to do then it might suit but to have another job they dont work for us.
After vet bills and time and colostrum the big price at market doesn't look so good.

fs

 

[shumungus]

The last 3 charolais calves we had all wouldn't suck the cows at birth. 2 different bulls. The last one was cavelands fenian. Born now 14 hours and still wont suck the cow. Itll suck her if i hold its head and turn the tit into her mouth and risk getting my brains knocked out but i cant hold it coz the calf is too strong and hurting my back. Its a big strong lively bull but pure dense.
The 1 before ended up on a drip or it would have died and the one before that had to be taken to the vet too.
Vets response was typical charolais, so it must be a problem with them.
Our limousins are up and sucking in an hour.
When the second one eventually sucked on the third day it only ever sucked the front 2 tits. If youve nothing else to do then it might suit but to have another job they dont work for us.
After vet bills and time and colostrum the big price at market doesn't look so good.

Bigger calves bigger, muscle mass, sounds like selenium deficiency you need to get blood profiles done asap and get at it with vitamin E. If your going to calve to charolais you need to manage accordingly.

 

[JHT]

Bolus?

 

[ISCO]

We just sold first charolais bull we bought at 13 years old and had no problems with his calves.
We also sold lim at 6 years old as too many calving problems.
Will be buying another charolais.

 

[hubbahubba]

I have charolais and shorthorn bulls. Granted every spring i question having a charolais, couple more pulls and help to sook. But 100% nothing sells like a charolais in the store ring. Even with the prime max weight drop charolais seem to be more wanted only the younger the more desirable. Cant have everything.

 

[Werzle]

My charolais calfs have the the same will to suck as my lims but they need pointing in the right direction more because they are bigger. Worth it in the long run though, but if you want everything to get on with it themselves and are willing to accept less for the end product use another breed. Charolais bulls seem in more demand than ever .

 

[milkloss]

Better minerals/trace elements will sort your problem. We get the odd one but not much anymore.

 

[neilo]

Sounds like a management problem, wrong cow, wrong choice of bull, wrong feeding pre calving.

Its very rarely the fault of the breed of bull. Which breed had highest averages at Stirling bull sales.

We've had all the problems you mention. Changing breed of cow made biggest difference to us. Remember pulling massive calves, cow and calf didn't get up for days. Big dopey calves. No life for anyone.

We used to use Charolais a lot on the dairy herd at one time, breeding calves that regularly topped Gloucester market. Every single one, from a whole host of different bulls, was a far more lethargic calf than any Lim, Blue, AA, or any of the other breeds we tried.
We only carried on using them so long because Dad couldn’t let go of those stocking month old calf prices that the best made, and ultimately, he was the one p*ssing about persuading them to suckle a tit day after day (much like Suffolk x lambs, but on steroids?).

What sealed their fate for even my father, was when we were forced to keep the calves born in 2001 (F&M year). Reared through to 9 months, the difference in shape between the Blues and the Charolais was quite mind blowing. I don’t think more than a dozen cows were AI’ed to a Charollais after that.

 

[DanielBennett]

Now I am no expert at beef cows (or any other types of cows, or other animals for that matter!), but when I read posts like this, I always see the ironic side of them. Sorry.

Why are so many British farmers so intent on breeding continental beef breeds?

There is so much grumbling about reducing prices for beef, which is ultimately driven down by reducing demand. And reducing demand is because less people are eating beef. And why are they eating less beef?

From someone who loves cooking (and farming), the beef in our supermarkets, predominantly from continental crosses is often a far cry from what great beef is really like.

So whilst appreciating many are rearing beef animals to meet the "demands" of the supermarkets, in doing so we are producing a mediocre product which will simply continue the downward spirral of demand.

I know that doesn't answer the OP's original question, but reverting to traditional British beef breeds may just help.

 

[neilo]

Now I am no expert at beef cows (or any other types of cows, or other animals for that matter!), but when I read posts like this, I always see the ironic side of them. Sorry.

Why are so many British farmers so intent on breeding continental beef breeds?

There is so much grumbling about reducing prices for beef, which is ultimately driven down by reducing demand. And reducing demand is because less people are eating beef. And why are they eating less beef?

From someone who loves cooking (and farming), the beef in our supermarkets, predominantly from continental crosses is often a far cry from what great beef is really like.

So whilst appreciating many are rearing beef animals to meet the "demands" of the supermarkets, in doing so we are producing a mediocre product which will simply continue the downward spirral of demand.

I know that doesn't answer the OP's original question, but reverting to traditional British beef breeds may just help.

The main problem with supermarket beef (& lamb) is not so much the breed, but the lack of hanging time. The best beef I have ever eaten was a Blonde Aquataine x Holstein heifer, reared steadily alongside our dairy followers and slaughtered/hung locally. The steady growth and the hanging after slaughter made all the difference imo,and it was far better than any Hereford or AA x dairy beasts we’d previously bred from the same herd.

Most of the steaks we eat now are supermarket steaks, bought when reduced & near ‘sell by’ date, then sat in the fridge in their sealed packs for up to a month. ?

 

[Doc]

@DanielBennett you are spot on. The Europ grid rewards the wrong thing as far as the consumer is concerned. This is common knowledge in other countries where product is sold on eating quality. You can’t polish a turd no matter how long you hang it....