TFF
Member
- Location
- Hammerwich
Lets see a show of hands....
Is the move from BPS to ELMs going to be "Good" or "Bad" for your farm?
- Thread starter TFF
- Start date
Goweresque
Member
- Location
- North Wilts
How on earth can anyone say when the details and payments for ELMS is years away from being announced?
- Location
- Near Colchester
I agree with @Goweresque , however from the preliminary news about such matters I predict that it will be good for me but nowhere near as good as the sfp since the big plan will be to save money from Government.
I predict that we won't be anywhere near profitable without it.
I predict that we won't be anywhere near profitable without it.
- Location
- Hammerwich
Well you can't say for sure, and even once all the items are announced your won't know then either. Its about what you believe right now. Its very black and white, your will either make more money or less money. Its a question about how you feel right now.
Big question I haven't seen answered is whether ELMs payments will be capped to what the BPS is right now. Given they are to do "public good" I can;t see any reason why they should be capped. So at the moment, I'll go for it being good for farms in general.
It will take some sort of miracle if ELMS provides even a large proportion of the present subsidies. If you read say the financial pages of the Telegraph, it's clear that all the financial analysts and political commentators expect the government to cut agricultural spending savagely in the next five years.
I agree, think we will know a lot more fairly soon though
It’s interesting on a few other threads that some seem very negative towards the change before they have any real facts or information though
Okay, hopefully your optimism will prove correct, and as a farmer obviously I want the best, but I will definitely not be holding my breath for a good outcome.
In the meantime perhaps people would care to read the procrastinations of, say, Roger Bootle, Liam Halligan, Liz Truss, Liam Fox, Andrea Ledsom etc etc etc about the cheap food that will be coming the UKs way when "unessesary" regulations concerning food imports are abandoned. Just saying.
spin cycle
Member
- Location
- north norfolk
it's going to be bad......reason is... at moment you effectively grow a crop...cereal,beet,rape ect and get bps....now i know technically it's decoupled but in practice eg cfa it's not.....under ELMS the options are likely to be things like fallow...bird cover ect.......thus there will be no support for crops...it'll be a choice.....grow the crop unsubsidised OR take the subsidy for doing something environmental......HOWEVER at present those with stewardship options still get bps....but as thats phased out it'll make those options less attractive,,,,,conclusion.....rock and hard place IMO
Steevo
Member
- Location
- Gloucestershire
Sadly I'm expecting ELMS to cost farmers as much as it gives, if not more......and quite likely the reimbursement of the costs involved will be delayed like current environmental schemes leaving farmers out of pocket.
It feels to me like farmers are being told they "should" do this, that etc. but the incentives for doing so will be miserly and unlikely acknowledge the cost associated with such things.
I hope I'm wrong, but when it comes to agricultural regulations, payments and all such things the government seem to drive a very hard bargain indeed and almost want something for nothing....whilst taking no responsibility at all for their own performance or requirements. They leave farmers to carry the can for the government policy they have to follow, rather than the government acknowledging its own policy doesn't work, or the uptake isn't there because it's too complicated, costly, and is of no benefit to farmers running a business.
I'd find it much more appealing if the schemes were profitable, workable, and practical....it would create a huge amount of goodwill from farmers and improve uptake.
Farmers are running a business first and foremost....and this needs to be recognised.
It feels to me like farmers are being told they "should" do this, that etc. but the incentives for doing so will be miserly and unlikely acknowledge the cost associated with such things.
I hope I'm wrong, but when it comes to agricultural regulations, payments and all such things the government seem to drive a very hard bargain indeed and almost want something for nothing....whilst taking no responsibility at all for their own performance or requirements. They leave farmers to carry the can for the government policy they have to follow, rather than the government acknowledging its own policy doesn't work, or the uptake isn't there because it's too complicated, costly, and is of no benefit to farmers running a business.
I'd find it much more appealing if the schemes were profitable, workable, and practical....it would create a huge amount of goodwill from farmers and improve uptake.
Farmers are running a business first and foremost....and this needs to be recognised.
farmerm
Member
- Location
- Shropshire
100% it will be worse, at least in terms of business profitability. BPS payments are due to have been cut by 50% before ELMS even comes on line and that assumes that current planned introduction of 2024 is achieved... The total pot of money for ELMS is set to remain similar to BPS but farmers will have to do more, much more, in order to claim their share of the pot, by definition that means the average farmer will be significantly financially worse off as a result... there will also be plenty more agents and advisors sucking money from the ELMS teat than is the case under BPS. The administration costs alone (which will surely come out of the pot first) for ELMS will be at least 10 times what it costs DEFRA to administer BPS.
Steevo
Member
- Location
- Gloucestershire
Steevo
Member
- Location
- Gloucestershire
This also begs the question......where will DEFRA etc get their stats from if they don't have BPS forms to analyse?
ELMS won't tell them that.....and if BPS goes before 2024 then there won't be anything then either, before ELMS kicks in.
ELMS won't tell them that.....and if BPS goes before 2024 then there won't be anything then either, before ELMS kicks in.
gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
ELMS will be very good and mean a lot of ££ss for large farms that are farming 1000+ acres.
For small family farms that are the backbone of the farming industry ELMS will be an utter disaster and many will be forced out of the industry!
Thus why the NFU are backing to the hilt the new scheme!
For small family farms that are the backbone of the farming industry ELMS will be an utter disaster and many will be forced out of the industry!
Thus why the NFU are backing to the hilt the new scheme!
spin cycle
Member
- Location
- north norfolk
Steevo
Member
- Location
- Gloucestershire
Are you suggesting til 2027 the forms will still exist, thus stat info?
What new scheme and where have we said we are backing it?
spin cycle
Member
- Location
- north norfolk
no....just saying that stewardship will be open for new agreements upto 2024 covering the transition to elms as bps fades