lime costs

[upnortheast]

Ive heard diff about Lime from there soz...

Can only speak as I find.

 

[Steevo]

which part cost effective?
The whole very detailed soil scanned zones then vari rate mapped for P&K & Lime
crops are deffo more even so far yeah.
Its going where it needs too go
No Wastage or over spreading
Is it cost effective ? its no dearer than how we used to do it IE blanket applying 250/300kg of 0:24:24 or 0:20:30 on every acre & that wasnt a cheap hobby neither.
The Lime job is far more accurate with this system tho.

Thank you.

 

[Warnesworth]

Those tiny chips in fields, I've often seen them, particularly in the chalk/limestone areas. Used to see them on the surface where they had been brought up by tillage. The frost would get them, they are near powder by spring and you can crush them with your little finger. It's not ideal I grant you but they will break down in time.

Afraid the research doesn't back this up.

No they’re not. They are flaky, but that flaky layer prevents further breakdown of the rest of it.
It probably is happening slowly, but it will take hundreds of years. There are Cotswold stone buildings all over the place that have stood in perfect condition for hundreds of years already.
Even if what you say is true, is it acceptable to buy a liming product that may or may not break down over several decades?
Not to my mind it’s not. Most customers are in a bit more of a hurry for a return on their investment.

Crikey, we are in agreement, whats going on???? You'll be recommending prilled lime next.

 

[ollie989898]

Afraid the research doesn't back this up.


Crikey, we are in agreement, whats going on???? You'll be recommending prilled lime next.

On my travels I have seen bits of chalk and lime shattered to pieces by freeze and thaw. I don't know what research you are citing but it's known that many that many many sedimentary rocks, being porous, experience freeze and thaw cycles over time.

Hardly ideal in this case given that it will all take time, but it's not like someone has tipped up a load of bricks.

 

[Warnesworth]

On my travels I have seen bits of chalk and lime shattered to pieces by freeze and thaw. I don't know what research you are citing but it's known that many that many many sedimentary rocks, being porous, experience freeze and thaw cycles over time.

Hardly ideal in this case given that it will all take time, but it's not like someone has tipped up a load of bricks.

The quote below is taken from Aglime.org.uk

"There is a considerable reduction in the effectiveness of liming materials containing particles above 600 microns (0.60mm, 60 mesh) unless the material is easily broken down".

US research (picture above) seems to back this up. Anything larger than 0.6mm diameter is very, very, very, slow.

Two different pieces of research conclude the same. That's good enough for me. Hard to dispute basic chemistry. Grind size matters.

 

[ollie989898]

The quote below is taken from Aglime.org.uk

"There is a considerable reduction in the effectiveness of liming materials containing particles above 600 microns (0.60mm, 60 mesh) unless the material is easily broken down".




View attachment 912536

US research (picture above) seems to back this up. Anything larger than 0.6mm diameter is very, very, very, slow.

Two different pieces of research conclude the same. That's good enough for me. Hard to dispute basic chemistry. Grind size matters.

You're not talking about 'basic chemistry'. You are talking about liming effectiveness which I have purposely not commented upon as it is a very different subject. The picture in the thread showed stuff the size of gravel/aggregate. It's not ideal (as I said earlier) but it will be breakdown in time. Certainly would not want to be buying lorry loads of the stuff, however.

Walk around areas where limestone and chalk are prevalent and you will see how small stones are weathered over time. Chalk, in particular, can be readily crushed between your fingers if it's had enough freeze and thaw on it. Oolitic limestone you will crush under your heel with not much effort.

 

[Warnesworth]

You're not talking about 'basic chemistry'. You are talking about liming effectiveness which I have purposely not commented upon as it is a very different subject. The picture in the thread showed stuff the size of gravel/aggregate. It's not ideal (as I said earlier) but it will be breakdown in time. Certainly would not want to be buying lorry loads of the stuff, however.

Walk around areas where limestone and chalk are prevalent and you will see how small stones are weathered over time. Chalk, in particular, can be readily crushed between your fingers if it's had enough freeze and thaw on it. Oolitic limestone you will crush under your heel with not much effort.

Lime reaction in the soil is chemistry. Calcium carbonate + hydrogen = CO2 + H2O +Ca
Lime becomes more effective with increasing surface area. Grind size equals greater surface area.

Yes, the large lumps will break down over time, but what time; years; decades; centuries; aeons? For lime purposes I want it to react (chemistry) quickly (weeks and months) to be effective.

 

[ollie989898]

Lime reaction in the soil is chemistry. Calcium carbonate + hydrogen = CO2 + H2O +Ca
Lime becomes more effective with increasing surface area. Grind size equals greater surface area.

Yes, it will break down over time, but what time; years; decades; centuries; aeons? For lime purposes I want it to react (chemistry) quickly (weeks and months) to be effective.

I dunno what you are arguing about in all honesty. Are you taking the time to read what I have said?

 

[Warnesworth]

I dunno what you are arguing about in all honesty. Are you taking the time to read what I have said?

I am being dim, please point out which bit of your response I have not addressed?

 

[Yale]

The Lime ive used is from a Quarry in North Yorks some 120miles south of here & thru Agrii it was £21.25/ton (25p cheaper than i remembered) Just found invoice !!
Vari-Rate spread by my contractor of choice at £5/ton
The Lime is like flour its Calcium type & no issues
I used the same Lime last backend it was slightly cheaper then under £20.

Found the place

Fenstone Quarry Sand Limes Stone

We’ve had 5 x 29t loads from there this year.

Its damn good looking stuff.


We can get local stuff for £10/t less but it’s quite gritty.

Last invoice from our local haulier who supplies it was £25.85/t so being further it is dearer but I’d say still worth the extra.

 

[dyfxt110]

We’ve had 5 x 29t loads from there this year.

Its damn good looking stuff.


We can get local stuff for £10/t less but it’s quite gritty.

Last invoice from our local haulier who supplies it was £25.85/t so being further it is dearer but I’d say still worth the extr

Ive heard diff about Lime from there soz...

We’ve had 5 x 29t loads from there this year.

Its damn good looking stuff.


We can get local stuff for £10/t less but it’s quite gritty.

Last invoice from our local haulier who supplies it was £25.85/t so being further it is dearer but I’d say still worth the extra.

Does the haulier go up there often? Shame if he comes back empty

 

[Yale]

Does the haulier go up there often? Shame if he comes back empty

Tends to take a load up to Manchester and carry on to York.

Last two loads I had just before Christmas were £28.10/t.

 

[dyfxt110]

Tends to take a load up to Manchester and carry on to York.

Last two loads I had just before Christmas were £28.10/t.

Not bad at all that, I just need a place to tip it and not worry about the weather

 

[Yale]

Not bad at all that, I just need a place to tip it and not worry about the weather

Yeah,we can get an artic bulker to the yard and tip on hard standing.The chalk lime should be spread before it gets wet as it just goes to mush,otherwise I would sheet it with an old silage sheet until it gets used.

 

[dyfxt110]

Yeah,we can get an artic bulker to the yard and tip on hard standing.The chalk lime should be spread before it gets wet as it just goes to mush,otherwise I would sheet it with an old silage sheet until it gets used.

We got plenty of sheets, if I can find or make a big enough place I would tell the haulier just bring me 200/300 ton and let them bring it in their own time as it would suit them

 

[ShooTa]

Yeah,we can get an artic bulker to the yard and tip on hard standing.The chalk lime should be spread before it gets wet as it just goes to mush,otherwise I would sheet it with an old silage sheet until it gets used.

Do you not use the stuff from the quaries on the way to Mold ? always heard they were good..

 

[Yale]

Do you not use the stuff from the quaries on the way to Mold ? always heard they were good..

Gone off it,too gritty.

 

[dyfxt110]

Gone off it,too gritty.

Got some decent stuff at times from cefn mawr last year,we get most of ours from st George, is good stuff sometimes and absolute shite other times

 

[landlover]

I had limestone come in this time as the local quarry was shut. Expensive due to haul and I’ve never seen stuff like it. Hopefully it does the trick! Anyone used it and how do you get on with it? Looks like it’ll take a while to break down.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

To be honest, can’t tell a lot from that.

Can you put say a 5p coin on the heap then take a close up photo so we can see the sample better please.