Long term silage grass seed mix

[Nathan818]

Wondering what everyone else uses for a long term (10 years) cutting mix on a 3/4 cut system. Heavy clay soils in cold, wet NI with first cut taken early/mid May. Usually use intermediate and late perennials, roughly 50/50 diploid and tetraploid, but wondering whether I should include some white/red clover, or if anyone has any recommendations for varieties?

 

[Will Blackburn]

Red clover may last 4 years, but then I’ve found tetraploids last 3 or 4 years. White clover will last forever.

 

[MrA.G.]

If it is heavy clay then red clover could struggle to last 3 or 4 years, compaction from machinery in the small weather windows will kill it. Both of these pictures are from the same field, only difference is soil type.

 

[Yale]

I’ve got a herbal ley, simple one from Cotswold seeds and the chicory loves the free draining half of the field, the damper clay bit it’s mainly gone.

 

[Nathan818]

If it is heavy clay then red clover could struggle to last 3 or 4 years, compaction from machinery in the small weather windows will kill it. Both of these pictures are from the same field, only difference is soil type.

That's what I would be worried about, and then the red clover dying out leaving gaps for weed growth. I'll probably just include a bit of white for some benefits and then go around the same split of 50/50 diploids and tetraploids. Silage ground usually gets 2.5kgN/ha applied for each growing day between cuts, but if clover content is looking good after the first spring I might try to reduce that.

 

[deleted user 837354]

That's what I would be worried about, and then the red clover dying out leaving gaps for weed growth. I'll probably just include a bit of white for some benefits and then go around the same split of 50/50 diploids and tetraploids. Silage ground usually gets 2.5kgN/ha applied for each growing day between cuts, but if clover content is looking good after the first spring I might try to reduce that.

Put in a 15kg mix including 1kg of large leaf white clover. Having a good 4 + 4kg of tetraploid for growth/yield will be a good idea also. The clover might not like being in an intensive nitrogen regime but it will help cover the ground. If it fades out after a time it's no big deal though.

If you don't put clover in then up the seed rate to 16kg/acre instead, with the remainder being diploid. Don't put anything early heading in if it is ground that hangs wet.

If you didn't want such a long lifetime out of it I would definitely consider putting in 4kg of lofa but that is just me.

 

[Bald Rick]

Wondering what everyone else uses for a long term (10 years) cutting mix on a 3/4 cut system. Heavy clay soils in cold, wet NI with first cut taken early/mid May. Usually use intermediate and late perennials, roughly 50/50 diploid and tetraploid, but wondering whether I should include some white/red clover, or if anyone has any recommendations for varieties?

Long term and cutting are mutually opposed if you are looking a good yields with cutting starting in April
They’ll last even less if you graze sheep

We are on a 5-6 cut regime depending on weather and generally will stitch via direct drilling extra PRG in year 4 then plough out in year 6. Use a lot of high sugars Aberystwyth grass

 

[Nathan818]

Long term and cutting are mutually opposed if you are looking a good yields with cutting starting in April
They’ll last even less if you graze sheep

We are on a 5-6 cut regime depending on weather and generally will stitch via direct drilling extra PRG in year 4 then plough out in year 6. Use a lot of high sugars Aberystwyth grass

We can usually get a tetraploid and diploid mix to last 6+ years, but that has been on a less intensive 3 cut system

 

[deleted user 837354]

If you are on systems that involve a lot of intense cutting then the trick of it is to ensure the leys are well fed prior to the winter and then allowed to rejuvenate and grow themselves and feed their root masses, otherwise you will exhaust them and the plants will then die.

Also, the bigger tetraploids (and some of the diploids aren't small these days) don't like much abuse. Don't cut low, leave a reasonable long stubble and avoid driving on it with tankers when it is tender. If you can largely follow these rules you will preserve the tillers and avoid exhausting the plants and this helps keep weed grasses out of it- which is what does for leys in the end.

Spray all broad leaved weeds out of new leys early on. And I mean early, not leaving it to all grow up long enough for sheep to eat it.

 

[Diesel davy]

Wondering what everyone else uses for a long term (10 years) cutting mix on a 3/4 cut system. Heavy clay soils in cold, wet NI with first cut taken early/mid May. Usually use intermediate and late perennials, roughly 50/50 diploid and tetraploid, but wondering whether I should include some white/red clover, or if anyone has any recommendations for varieties?

Give thomas scott and son seed merchants a ring, hes based near maghera iirc and he knows his stuff about seeds and sprays

 

[som farmer]

I’ve got a herbal ley, simple one from Cotswold seeds and the chicory loves the free draining half of the field, the damper clay bit it’s mainly gone.

interesting, our chicory in the wetter fields has disappeared this summer.

 

[Will Blackburn]

Don't cut low, leave a reasonable long stubble

This

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Large leaf white clover is double the cost of Red Clover and won't last any longer
I would stick with Meduim Leaf and add some Red , it overseeds well after 3 cut if it's not to late ,

 

[upnortheast]

Spray all broad leaved weeds out of new leys early on. And I mean early, not leaving it to all grow up long enough for sheep to eat it.

We aim to reseed in early August with int / late pereniels. Blast the weeds in early Oct. light graze with sheep Nov.
After 1st cut scratch in Red Clover.
Seems to work well

 

[deleted user 837354]

Large leaf white clover is double the cost of Red Clover and won't last any longer
I would stick with Meduim Leaf and add some Red , it overseeds well after 3 cut if it's not to late ,

White clover will persist far better than red, but neither particularly endure a situation where there is a lot of nitrogen being applied.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

White clover will persist far better than red, but neither particularly endure a situation where there is a lot of nitrogen being applied.

I would still sooner but nealy 3 times the amount of red for the same price as 1 of large white

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Anther option which a lot do is bang on 16 kg acre Hybrid Ryegrass , grows rapid for 3 years then just overseed more in
Be half the cost of a long term ley and you get an accurate heading date for D values