Organic Farming - what to consider?

[Briar]

Appreciate some may consider this as a move to the "Dark Side" but that is the application for conversion in.

Reasons for the decision include disillusion of conventional farming's reliance on fossil fuels and synthetic inputs, the desire to leave the farm in better condition for the next generation, the wildlife, belief that a grass based system with livestock is key, want to add value to what I grow and not produce just a commodity etc. And yes the conversion payment is not to be sniffed at and should help in these times of uncertainty.

My question especially to those who are or have tried to farm organically is what are the main pitfalls or issues from their own experience to be aware of?

Have already been advised to spray for docks as much as possible and that our target market lies within the M25 despite the fact we are in NE Scotland.

Thank you

 

[7610 super q]

Well, you've touched on perennial weeds, but the main thing IMO is market, market, market. Is there a market for what you are going to produce ? Oh, and transport will be an issue, it killed off potato/ vegetable, and egg production for me in West Wales.

 

[Highland Mule]

You’ll use far more fossil fuel too - the carrot boys on the A96 are burning up the diesel compared to conventional, plus they have huge weeding resource levels, and with a weekend off, humans use far more petrol more than sprayers. Organic is not necessarily more environmentally friendly, it just uses different resources.

 

[davieh3350]

I was reading your post thinking great, you're keen and showing interest in the process not just in it for the extra money, then you go and spoil it all by saying about the spraying. What's the point of going into it if you're preparing for converting by using chemicals to get you clean fields?
(Though, you may only have been advised to do it, but scoffed at the idea)
I've been pretty much running as organic, but not been registered as organic since 2011. Feck having the paperwork and fees and inspections.

 

[Martyn]

I was reading your post thinking great, you're keen and showing interest in the process not just in it for the extra money, then you go and spoil it all by saying about the spraying. What's the point of going into it if you're preparing for converting by using chemicals to get you clean fields?
(Though, you may only have been advised to do it, but scoffed at the idea)
I've been pretty much running as organic, but not been registered as organic since 2011. Feck having the paperwork and fees and inspections.

Appreciate some may consider this as a move to the "Dark Side" but that is the application for conversion in.

Reasons for the decision include disillusion of conventional farming's reliance on fossil fuels and synthetic inputs, the desire to leave the farm in better condition for the next generation, the wildlife, belief that a grass based system with livestock is key, want to add value to what I grow and not produce just a commodity etc. And yes the conversion payment is not to be sniffed at and should help in these times of uncertainty.

My question especially to those who are or have tried to farm organically is what are the main pitfalls or issues from their own experience to be aware of?

Have already been advised to spray for docks as much as possible and that our target market lies within the M25 despite the fact we are in NE Scotland.

Thank you

If you going organic you need to think and breath it, docks actually bring a lot to the surface, provide homes for dock beatles, and sheep can control them, we took on a conventional farm covered in them, cutting back nitrogen use best way to help combat them, we conpresd them with competive cropping and graze them hard.

The conversion payment expect to wait a good 18/24 montgs befor you get it.

 

[davieh3350]

A bale with a heap of docks in it in a feeder disappears quite well, only tough stems left uneaten. Will be full of minerals from deep down.
The farmer I worked with in New Zealand came back with "I'd rather there WAS thistles in the silage (chopped and in a pit) than weren't as they're full of sugar" when I commented on how many there were in the crop.
He saw the good in them.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

,

 

[Wooly]

From my relative short observation with organic :

There is no market for organic lamb.

You don’t save fossil fuel, as instead of a single pass with a sprayer, you top the same weeds half a dozen times using vast quantities of diesel.

Derogations for animal health chemicals are given out like confetti . Just the withdrawal times are longer .

Your neighbours will probably not be impressed with your weed seeds blowing over their farm.

 

[capfits]

Coming recession.
Personally think rising organic uptake is a sign of folk "thinking" they have money and a prelude to recession.

 

[organicguy]

First fields went organic 22 years ago, some are cleaner now than then, much less blackgrass but more docks and wild oats. The fields we first converted and time to rogue for docks or wild oats are still clean but the ones we missed have become a problem.
Thistles no issue at all.
I have no regrets converting, producing milk and beef, little arable, we are better off than being conventional.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

I've spent my life fighting rushes and docks and you guys want to invite them for tea

 

[Tim W]

Sounds like you want to do it which is the most important thing
Last year was the first time in 20+ years that i haven't had an organic certification but that's just due to me being a grazier
If i had a choice i would farm to organic standards with plenty of clover and a decent rotation

Observations ---
New organic farmers often try to push the system too far ---they want more cereals in a rotation than is advisable
You can never have too many ruminants
Don't expect large premiums for what you produce --in fact i would budget on no premium , that way you wont be disappointed

Good luck, i'm sure you will enjoy the challenge and the rewards

 

[ploughman1963]

Dairy with arable here - year 3. Docks in grassland are controllable as we rotationally graze so we just premow before heading and do multi-cut silage on about 30 day rotation. The time they are an issue is in a drought when they run to head before the grass is ready to cut. Charlock is our main issue in arable - we grow winter oats for winter ration and that smothers everything except charlock. This winter was our first chance to tine weed the oats to try to control charlock - worst decision ever! Poorer looking oats and just as much charlock - think I am just going to save diesel and tractor hours and ignore the charlock which will get taken out when the ground goes back into grass.

I enjoy the organic and its challenges without being an evangelist about it and try to adopt many of the principles in our conventional farming activities - whats not to like about loads of clover in grass leys. Organic milk does have a worthwhile margin over conventional - I cannot see any for sheep

 

[Briar]

Its been a several year journey from being a cynic to being convinced its the best option for us and taking the plunge. The eye opener for me was our hay dryer and the quality of forage it produces allowing us a high protein feed from "grass" alone. Ultimately I would like to produce grass fed only beef. However the slaughterhouses wont give a premium for grass fed only. Just organic and certain breeds.
While we can grow cereals up here the issue lies with the amount of machinery required to grow the stuff in the weather windows available. Fert n sprays I cant see becoming any cheaper. Its a treadmill I want to get off.
Yes it will be a steep learning curve and I'm bound to make mistakes - how else do you learn? Hence why I'm comfortable taking the conversion payment. All very well having ideals but I see myself as being pragmatic and intend utilising the funds to make the system work for me for when the funding runs out and fert prices are even higher.

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

You need reasonably good free draining land if you want profitable organic.
Seen plenty come and go, recently a lot more has gone.

 

[Treg]

Organic suckler herd here.
Takes a few years for your land to find it's own balance.
Spend the conversion money wisely! Because there will be years that there's little premium for being Organic.
There will also be fantastic years , Organic seems more volatile than conventional, again in those fantastic years spend your money wisely.

 

[texas pete]

Its been a several year journey from being a cynic to being convinced its the best option for us and taking the plunge. The eye opener for me was our hay dryer and the quality of forage it produces allowing us a high protein feed from "grass" alone. Ultimately I would like to produce grass fed only beef. However the slaughterhouses wont give a premium for grass fed only. Just organic and certain breeds.
While we can grow cereals up here the issue lies with the amount of machinery required to grow the stuff in the weather windows available. Fert n sprays I cant see becoming any cheaper. Its a treadmill I want to get off.
Yes it will be a steep learning curve and I'm bound to make mistakes - how else do you learn? Hence why I'm comfortable taking the conversion payment. All very well having ideals but I see myself as being pragmatic and intend utilising the funds to make the system work for me for when the funding runs out and fert prices are even higher.

I have no knowledge of organic certification, but, generalising, once you can get yourself off the treadmill (with the conversion payments to help this?) then, rather than finding you need the premium for organic, you should end up with a lower cost, more sustainable system.

That's the way I'd look at it anyway. Sounds like you have a good plan.

 

[Flat 10]

Its been a several year journey from being a cynic to being convinced its the best option for us and taking the plunge. The eye opener for me was our hay dryer and the quality of forage it produces allowing us a high protein feed from "grass" alone. Ultimately I would like to produce grass fed only beef. However the slaughterhouses wont give a premium for grass fed only. Just organic and certain breeds.
While we can grow cereals up here the issue lies with the amount of machinery required to grow the stuff in the weather windows available. Fert n sprays I cant see becoming any cheaper. Its a treadmill I want to get off.
Yes it will be a steep learning curve and I'm bound to make mistakes - how else do you learn? Hence why I'm comfortable taking the conversion payment. All very well having ideals but I see myself as being pragmatic and intend utilising the funds to make the system work for me for when the funding runs out and fert prices are even higher.

And what does the hay drier run on?

 

[Flat 10]

Actually pictures would be good apart from premium growers like @Clever Dic i thought hay driers went out in the 60’s?

 

[Briar]

I have no knowledge of organic certification, but, generalising, once you can get yourself off the treadmill (with the conversion payments to help this?) then, rather than finding you need the premium for organic, you should end up with a lower cost, more sustainable system.

That's the way I'd look at it anyway. Sounds like you have a good plan.

The "lower" cost more sustainable system is my goal. My drying plant for forage is not cheap, but can provide better added value return for my grass over growing arable. I believe it and a grazing system along the lines of that advocated by Kiwi Pete along with growing enough cereals for own use is the way forward for us. Both the grazing system and the cutting regime for the hay (3 - 4 times a year conventionally) should control any perennial weed problem. I see the green "hay" as my protein source and the surplus my cash crop.