Removing compaction without machinery

[Kiwi Pete]

Biology needs a food source, slurry and manure are poor food sources compared to root exudates.
The downside with feeding plants is that the plants don't need to trigger the biology to feed them, so the biology is made redundant and struggles to come up with the goods when required

A plain old ryegrass + clover mix is fine in a damp enough climate for it to grow, as with anything it boils down to management

If I leave 6 inches of grass then I'll have a better nutrient cycle than if I leave 2 inches of grass
Most of my mates would be putting the mower on, in another week I'll be putting cattle in

 

[som farmer]

we use standard ley mixes, because we are told that's what we want. Years ago grass was fesques, cocksfoot, prg timothy, etc, and it grew, year after year. Then we kept using prg, at one stage clover was a 'baddie', lots of nitrogen, that increased acidity, and so on. It is, only with hindsight, that we now find ourselves, doubting the way. Hay making, ground was covered in seed, by the time we had finished it. Now, rye grasses should be cut, before they seed, even if they do, not much seed is shed. But, we all want more from grass, and £1000's have been spent developing 'new' varieties, for more production. Looking back, perhaps we should have spent money, on the native grasses, and improved them, not that hasn't happened, just nowhere near the ryegrasses. I don't pretend to know the answers, but I think, soil structure, rotation, is all interlinked, and the whole lot, needs to be looked at, as one. Here, in the UK, we are told grass is at its 'best' 6'' high, in the USA, some say, increase the rotation length, and just feed the top 3'', who's right ? We measure, and back/strip fence grass, and get very good production of it, but the leys don't seem to last

 

[som farmer]

we used a different chemical mix, for maize one year, worked fine, except the whole field, underneath the maize, was full of plantains, near enough hedge to hedge, no effect on the maize crop, but had a hell of a job to move the keep sheep of it, plenty of grass to run, but more time on the plantains than the grass, plantains are related to chicory, I think. just another useless thought.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

we use standard ley mixes, because we are told that's what we want. Years ago grass was fesques, cocksfoot, prg timothy, etc, and it grew, year after year. Then we kept using prg, at one stage clover was a 'baddie', lots of nitrogen, that increased acidity, and so on. It is, only with hindsight, that we now find ourselves, doubting the way. Hay making, ground was covered in seed, by the time we had finished it. Now, rye grasses should be cut, before they seed, even if they do, not much seed is shed. But, we all want more from grass, and £1000's have been spent developing 'new' varieties, for more production. Looking back, perhaps we should have spent money, on the native grasses, and improved them, not that hasn't happened, just nowhere near the ryegrasses. I don't pretend to know the answers, but I think, soil structure, rotation, is all interlinked, and the whole lot, needs to be looked at, as one. Here, in the UK, we are told grass is at its 'best' 6'' high, in the USA, some say, increase the rotation length, and just feed the top 3'', who's right ? We measure, and back/strip fence grass, and get very good production of it, but the leys don't seem to last

Well, I certainly don't know all the answers to that - but the above photo of mine is a "short rotation" tetraploid in it's 19th year

The big thing is that if you mow them when you see heads, then you cut ALL the heads off - but if you graze it then you take some of the leaves and some of the heads.
It still gets that chance to drop enough seed to regenerate tired tillers.

Regarding your last part, both paradigms are "right" as well as wrong - but coming from different angles; the best of a plant is the top half of a plant, but if you only have a 6 inch plant then you'll want to take the whole lot. There's the rub.
You could take 6 inches off a 12 inch plant? Or 9 inches off an 18 incher.

You'll get a better return laying it on the ground than putting it through an animal, yet even with sheep and beef "unprofitable" this isn't realised.
"Yield is king" is actually correct, because waste is king and without yield you have no waste. Yield ceases to be king when pasture utilisation is high!

We aim to fully utilise half the grass via the livestock, and utilise the other half via the soil food web - so we need to grow much more than we budget on our stock eating

 

[som farmer]

Well, I certainly don't know all the answers to that - but the above photo of mine is a "short rotation" tetraploid in it's 19th year

The big thing is that if you mow them when you see heads, then you cut ALL the heads off - but if you graze it then you take some of the leaves and some of the heads.
It still gets that chance to drop enough seed to regenerate tired tillers.

Regarding your last part, both paradigms are "right" as well as wrong - but coming from different angles; the best of a plant is the top half of a plant, but if you only have a 6 inch plant then you'll want to take the whole lot. There's the rub.
You could take 6 inches off a 12 inch plant? Or 9 inches off an 18 incher.

You'll get a better return laying it on the ground than putting it through an animal, yet even with sheep and beef "unprofitable" this isn't realised.
"Yield is king" is actually correct, because waste is king and without yield you have no waste. Yield ceases to be king when pasture utilisation is high!

We aim to fully utilise half the grass via the livestock, and utilise the other half via the soil food web - so we need to grow much more than we budget on our stock eating

interesting, for us, it may be that we have grazed our leys to tightly, the result of 2 yrs drought, so unsupprising.
Certainly looking at plant height, we have followed the plate meter mantra, assuming that is the 'best' way to utilise grass, and 'best' grass utilisation = best profit. Greg Judy, from the USA, is achieving best use, by grazing once, every 60 days, and just taking the top 3'', he is taking knacked grass, and regenerating it naturally through his system, and doing it. He has, now started to bring sheep, goats, pigs and chicken, into his systems, which to me, sounds a bit fanatical. Certainly on our farm, we could not run a 60 day rotation, we simply are not big enough, 200 acres.
But, grass yields are declining, when we are told they should be increasing, so, something isn't right, its the what.
For many grass farms, in the UK, measureing, and using those measurements, will bring huge benefits, it is when you move on, as in our case, forced to overgraze, through drought, cracks appear. When I began farming, in the early 70's, we still had a lot of pp around, produced reasonable amounts, and cattle were happy on them, some new kid, on the block, knew better, and extra fert, the plough, and corn took over, worked great for years, only recently realising it's not quite right. But, what we do know, is, well conditioned soil, retains water, and absorbs carbon, both of which are good. I reckon the last 2 years here, were worse than 75/6, is a cause of this, the fact then, we had less intensive farming, and fields hardly ever ploughed, against now, where we have 10 acres of pp, everything else ploughed. Can't say I know the answers, but the future is looking different, with Brexit, and loss of subsidy, and is the 'right' time, to have a good 'belt and braces' look at our system, which we have done, time will tell.
On your photo, looks great, i remember at college, being told, a well maintained pp could be as productive as new leys, perhaps i should have listened more !!!!!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

The big problem with "the plate meter" is that it's like using a tread depth gauge to work out why your tractor is bogged to the diffs..... or blaming the rain for washing the bare soil off a field.

You cannot assess the health of a forest ecosystem by measuring the height of some of the taller trees, and this is effectively the point I'm trying to reinforce.
You cannot see how much is in your bank account by weighing your cattle.
Measuring grass is thus a pointless exercise if you don't do the right thing with the data, it encourages following a recipe.

Nature doesn't like monotony, so in effect by continually bonsai'ing your pastures then compaction is often exacerbated.
Rotational grazing is by NO means best grazing practice, by no means the best we can do, if it doesn't contain a rational element.
That rational element should say, "leave more than that behind" or "would they still be here if it wasn't for 9400 volts/this stone wall" or "what if all the weather predictions are wrong" and actually bunch them up into A herd and move them, like a wolf pack does

(If you want to learn how to grow grass for low cost, look at nature documentaries for clues.
If you want to always be always up against it, ask a farmer)

Much of the flood/drought cycle is totally man's own doing, what we believe is often the problem.

 

[Farmer Roy]

Machinery & wheels cause compaction

Cultivation causes compaction

Poor grazing management causes compaction

Poor pasture management causes compaction

Synthetic fert causes compaction

Slurry / FYM creates a bacterially dominant soil, which causes compaction

Anything which impacts on soil fungi or causes the F:B ratio to be out of balance will contribute to compaction


Simple

 

[Farmer Roy]

A diversity of plant roots, ground cover, active soil fungi & even animal impact can all address soil compaction

 

[Farmer Roy]

A diversity of plant roots, ground cover, active soil fungi & even animal impact can all address soil compaction

 

[Farmer Roy]

A diversity of plant roots, ground cover, active soil fungi & even animal impact can all address soil compaction

 

[Crofter64]

interesting, for us, it may be that we have grazed our leys to tightly, the result of 2 yrs drought, so unsupprising.
Certainly looking at plant height, we have followed the plate meter mantra, assuming that is the 'best' way to utilise grass, and 'best' grass utilisation = best profit. Greg Judy, from the USA, is achieving best use, by grazing once, every 60 days, and just taking the top 3'', he is taking knacked grass, and regenerating it naturally through his system, and doing it. He has, now started to bring sheep, goats, pigs and chicken, into his systems, which to me, sounds a bit fanatical. Certainly on our farm, we could not run a 60 day rotation, we simply are not big enough, 200 acres.
But, grass yields are declining, when we are told they should be increasing, so, something isn't right, its the what.
For many grass farms, in the UK, measureing, and using those measurements, will bring huge benefits, it is when you move on, as in our case, forced to overgraze, through drought, cracks appear. When I began farming, in the early 70's, we still had a lot of pp around, produced reasonable amounts, and cattle were happy on them, some new kid, on the block, knew better, and extra fert, the plough, and corn took over, worked great for years, only recently realising it's not quite right. But, what we do know, is, well conditioned soil, retains water, and absorbs carbon, both of which are good. I reckon the last 2 years here, were worse than 75/6, is a cause of this, the fact then, we had less intensive farming, and fields hardly ever ploughed, against now, where we have 10 acres of pp, everything else ploughed. Can't say I know the answers, but the future is looking different, with Brexit, and loss of subsidy, and is the 'right' time, to have a good 'belt and braces' look at our system, which we have done, time will tell.
On your photo, looks great, i remember at college, being told, a well maintained pp could be as productive as new leys, perhaps i should have listened more !!!!!

I think that the 60 day rotation is useful with his land base and rainfall (40 inches or so per year) but can ceratinly be shortened in the wet uk spring- 200,acres is not nothing and with a decent grazing chart and a plan you can go a long way. In 2016 when we had a very dry summer I got myself a large grazing chart ( about 24x 40”) and planned and replanned where the cattle and sheep would go throughout the summer. I guessed we would get rain sometime, and we did in September , and because I hadn’t regrazed pastures that had been grazed earlier ( I fed hay for a couple of weeks to slow the rotation) the grass took off again and I grazed till the end of November. I don’t measure the grass except with my eye , but change my grazing plan according to what I see and not just based on my preplanned rotation length.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I think that the 60 day rotation is useful with his land base and rainfall (40 inches or so per year) but can ceratinly be shortened in the wet uk spring- 200,acres is not nothing and with a decent grazing chart and a plan you can go a long way. In 2016 when we had a very dry summer I got myself a large grazing chart ( about 24x 40”) and planned and replanned where the cattle and sheep would go throughout the summer. I guessed we would get rain sometime, and we did in September , and because I hadn’t regrazed pastures that had been grazed earlier ( I fed hay for a couple of weeks to slow the rotation) the grass took off again and I grazed till the end of November. I don’t measure the grass except with my eye , but change my grazing plan according to what I see and not just based on my preplanned rotation length.

Definitely, appropriate recovery is much more important than "long" recovery, as long as the stock prune nearly all the tillers at each grazing and the grass has enough recovery time to restore its root.

 

[clod hopper]

interesting, for us, it may be that we have grazed our leys to tightly, the result of 2 yrs drought, so unsupprising.
Certainly looking at plant height, we have followed the plate meter mantra, assuming that is the 'best' way to utilise grass, and 'best' grass utilisation = best profit. Greg Judy, from the USA, is achieving best use, by grazing once, every 60 days, and just taking the top 3'', he is taking knacked grass, and regenerating it naturally through his system, and doing it. He has, now started to bring sheep, goats, pigs and chicken, into his systems, which to me, sounds a bit fanatical. Certainly on our farm, we could not run a 60 day rotation, we simply are not big enough, 200 acres.
But, grass yields are declining, when we are told they should be increasing, so, something isn't right, its the what.
For many grass farms, in the UK, measureing, and using those measurements, will bring huge benefits, it is when you move on, as in our case, forced to overgraze, through drought, cracks appear. When I began farming, in the early 70's, we still had a lot of pp around, produced reasonable amounts, and cattle were happy on them, some new kid, on the block, knew better, and extra fert, the plough, and corn took over, worked great for years, only recently realising it's not quite right. But, what we do know, is, well conditioned soil, retains water, and absorbs carbon, both of which are good. I reckon the last 2 years here, were worse than 75/6, is a cause of this, the fact then, we had less intensive farming, and fields hardly ever ploughed, against now, where we have 10 acres of pp, everything else ploughed. Can't say I know the answers, but the future is looking different, with Brexit, and loss of subsidy, and is the 'right' time, to have a good 'belt and braces' look at our system, which we have done, time will tell.
On your photo, looks great, i remember at college, being told, a well maintained pp could be as productive as new leys, perhaps i should have listened more !!!!!

I'm starting to ask questions now too. I'm by default at halfway point.
I don't use any fertilizer at all I try to utilize what I have ie. Livestock and strip grazing. I am growing more grass each year. My biggest improvement this last twelve months has been on paddocks where I didn't top the grass this summer. Didn't make any hay/silage did conserved grazing instead. Even in the middle of the drought the was some green at the bottom as well as enough dried grass to get through. Sheep did well. The topped areas (cosmetic for the wife) had nothing left and was about a month behind in grass growth once the rain came. So it's got me thinking.
At no time did I farm to system Holistic or otherwise just followed my gut.

 

[Angus]

Machinery & wheels cause compaction

Cultivation causes compaction

Poor grazing management causes compaction

Poor pasture management causes compaction

Synthetic fert causes compaction

Slurry / FYM creates a bacterially dominant soil, which causes compaction

Anything which impacts on soil fungi or causes the F:B ratio to be out of balance will contribute to compaction


Simple

Is there a natural balance of [ I presume ] fungi to bacteria? If so, what would be the best way to spread straw and dung from winter housing on permanent pasture? Straight out of the shed; heap it up for a few months? Thanks Angus.

 

[Whitewalker]

I'm starting to ask questions now too. I'm by default at halfway point.
I don't use any fertilizer at all I try to utilize what I have ie. Livestock and strip grazing. I am growing more grass each year. My biggest improvement this last twelve months has been on paddocks where I didn't top the grass this summer. Didn't make any hay/silage did conserved grazing instead. Even in the middle of the drought the was some green at the bottom as well as enough dried grass to get through. Sheep did well. The topped areas (cosmetic for the wife) had nothing left and was about a month behind in grass growth once the rain came. So it's got me thinking.
At no time did I farm to system Holistic or otherwise just followed my gut.

We topped next to nothing also and I now look back and think of all the tramping over the soil every 3/4 weeks in the past , no wonder we have docks .

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Is there a natural balance of [ I presume ] fungi to bacteria? If so, what would be the best way to spread straw and dung from winter housing on permanent pasture? Straight out of the shed; heap it up for a few months? Thanks Angus.

@Kiwi Pete is far beret to answer you than me but, yes, the nitrogen ratio is too high in fresh dung and it should ideally be composted for some time, preferably with added carbon (straw, woodchip etc).