Rent Per acre without BPS

[egbert]

Very much this

Who benefits from BPS? John Deere, Fendt, Vaderstad etc. Agrii/Procam etc Don't forget Tesco, Morrisons etc too

exactomont rodney , exactomont.
Wrap manufactures, mole valley, the vets practise, our own staff, all those folk to whom I write cheques.

And while i get absolutely hammered flat if I put fat Galloway bullocks into (insert name of supermarket abattoir here), they're very happy to steal them because they're the wrong shape/age/weight, or theres an R in the month.............they still take em, cos who can go wrong at that money, and they get beef which tastes good as well!

 

[B'o'B]

At the same time, I think, money will flow from gov, to farmers, under all sorts of grants etc, aimed to produce cheap food, it will be technology, to help us farm more efficiently, grants for the environment, and many other things. But, by taking advantage of a 40% grant, we still have to find 60% ,to cover the rest, which, we are told, will enable us to produce more, cheaper. After all, the sfp has been factored into the price we are paid, the answer lies in reducing production, proven by the fact, that every one tells us to produce more, to spread costs of 'improvements' over more acres, cows, sheep etc !

That’s pre Brexit thinking. We are moving to a brave new post Brexit world.

 

[Werzle]

The way some of the arable ground looks after being robbed and abused in this wet weather it ought to be rent free in the hope something can be done to restore it.

 

[Farma Parma]

In 99 to 2005, tenants were being paid to farm by the landlord, about £20/ac

Where abouts did that happen? cert not with us not once on the vast Estate my LL owns thats never been the case iam pretty sure of that.
but there on a hiding if the Subs income isnt sustained this will end up heading that direction.

 

[Farma Parma]

personally very difficult to expand here, more land would be much dearer to rent that current AHA farm is so your on a hiding from the start.
There is plenty think its the way & are well into it, poss borrowed to the max.

 

[Farma Parma]

Very much this

Who benefits from BPS? John Deere, Fendt, Vaderstad etc. Agrii/Procam etc Don't forget Tesco, Morrisons etc too

I think some are very aware whats coming.
Plenty had the cream out of food production but its rarely been the Farmer

 

[som farmer]

That’s pre Brexit thinking. We are moving to a brave new post Brexit world.

actually, for this point, I think the underlying need for cheap food will not disappear, and any gov, will pay lip service to ag, it is entirely in their interests to keep us farming, and churning out cheap food, after all, they are very happy to let farmers take the blame for climate change !! We all know air travel is 1 of the biggest carbon culprits, what would happen if they hammered air holidays by tax ? But you are right in saying a brave new world, we have to learn to live with the outcome, good or bad ! But the guv need for cheap food won't, and, after all, we are a convenient profession to take blame the blame for climate change !!

 

[B'o'B]

actually, for this point, I think the underlying need for cheap food will not disappear, and any gov, will pay lip service to ag, it is entirely in their interests to keep us farming, and churning out cheap food, after all, they are very happy to let farmers take the blame for climate change !! We all know air travel is 1 of the biggest carbon culprits, what would happen if they hammered air holidays by tax ? But you are right in saying a brave new world, we have to learn to live with the outcome, good or bad ! But the guv need for cheap food won't, and, after all, we are a convenient profession to take blame the blame for climate change !!

Agriculture is a private enterprise and food is sold in markets, directly to consumers, and is therefore by definition (and according to official government guidance) a private, rather than a public, good (H.M. Treasury, 2018)4. Public subsidy of private production is extremely unusual (especially at the rates indicated previously) and, as noted above, runs the risk of consumers paying twice, once as purchasers of food and again as taxpayers. Access to food is in the public interest and preventing food poverty through social security payments or other actions is an extremely worthy cause. However, food producers typically aim to sell to the highest bidder, not the most socially deserving consumer.

That’s a quote from https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264837718308603, as posted on the public goods thread.

I agree cheap food is now very important to the population, but I’m pretty sure the current UK government doesn’t care if it’s home grown cheap food or imported cheap food.

 

[glasshouse]

in the mid 1800's, food took 70% of average wage, down to sub 10% now, that is a massive change. It is what that 60% is spent on, that is the question. There is an answer that says its spent on interest on maxed out credit cards !
But it is spent on 'liesure', ie, holidays, eating out, luxury goods etc. If food costs rise, there will be less to spend on those goods, the result, a very unhappy electorate, and they will blame whoever is in power, and power will change.
So, a fundamental basic, of staying in power, is to keep food costs down, how ? Well, I think it is pretty obvious that cheaper will be imported, whatever lip service is said. At the same time, I think, money will flow from gov, to farmers, under all sorts of grants etc, aimed to produce cheap food, it will be technology, to help us farm more efficiently, grants for the environment, and many other things. But, by taking advantage of a 40% grant, we still have to find 60% ,to cover the rest, which, we are told, will enable us to produce more, cheaper. After all, the sfp has been factored into the price we are paid, the answer lies in reducing production, proven by the fact, that every one tells us to produce more, to spread costs of 'improvements' over more acres, cows, sheep etc !

A large portion of the 60% goes on rent or mortgage.
As food has fallen in price, property has grabbed the spare money

 

[glasshouse]

Didn't anyone let you know Corbyn lost

Who won or lost is irrelevant
Brexit will tank the economy and cheap food imports is going to render vast swathes of farms uneconomic.
A corbyn win might have had a greater chance of giving farmers support, but boris would sell his mother for a couple of quid , so watch out.

 

[Brisel]

A large portion of the 60% goes on rent or mortgage.
As food has fallen in price, property has grabbed the spare money

Don't forget the latest smartphone, 50" telly, German car, a couple of foreign holidays/year too...

 

[glasshouse]

Where abouts did that happen? cert not with us not once on the vast Estate my LL owns thats never been the case iam pretty sure of that.
but there on a hiding if the Subs income isnt sustained this will end up heading that direction.

Land was “let” for zero or even a negative ten or twenty quid, with landlord claiming sfp if there was one

 

[glasshouse]

Don't forget the latest smartphone, 50" telly, German car, a couple of foreign holidays/year too...

Maybe in your world

 

[som farmer]

Agriculture is a private enterprise and food is sold in markets, directly to consumers, and is therefore by definition (and according to official government guidance) a private, rather than a public, good (H.M. Treasury, 2018)4. Public subsidy of private production is extremely unusual (especially at the rates indicated previously) and, as noted above, runs the risk of consumers paying twice, once as purchasers of food and again as taxpayers. Access to food is in the public interest and preventing food poverty through social security payments or other actions is an extremely worthy cause. However, food producers typically aim to sell to the highest bidder, not the most socially deserving consumer.

That’s a quote from https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264837718308603, as posted on the public goods thread.

I agree cheap food is now very important to the population, but I’m pretty sure the current UK government doesn’t care if it’s home grown cheap food or imported cheap food.

all parties need to keep food prices low, the old saying, a hungry man has one problem, the full one has many, which could be why veg/veganism is rising !, where the food comes from, or what quality it is, is/will be ignored, whether it is used in 'trade' deals, with 3rd world countries, or USA, as long as it is cheap. That leaves UK farmers, trying to earn a living, if the guv makes subs, or grants, to 'keep' us farming, which I think it will, by the uptake of monies, by us, ultimately leads to increased production, thereby cheaper food costs ! Climate change will have an effect, currently, we are getting a bashing on that front, and as we are not a major culprit, compared with air travel, it probably suits other industries, for us to get the blame !
But, post Brexit, the requirement of any guv, to keep food costs down, will not change, and if they can import food from anywhere cheaply, they will. But farming UK, will be wanted to produce cheaper food, and, as continued since ww2, subs are paid, more as a reason, to keep prices down. But, I am beginning to think, the whole sub/grant system, has been cleverly formulated, to encourage us to 'modernise', and by doing so, we invest large amounts of money, to make use of the grants etc, which means we have to produce more, to spread costs, over more product, the result, our product value, has not really risen for 20/30 years, however, if something runs short, the value shoots up, and then drops, because we up production.

 

[B'o'B]

all parties need to keep food prices low, the old saying, a hungry man has one problem, the full one has many, which could be why veg/veganism is rising !, where the food comes from, or what quality it is, is/will be ignored, whether it is used in 'trade' deals, with 3rd world countries, or USA, as long as it is cheap. That leaves UK farmers, trying to earn a living, if the guv makes subs, or grants, to 'keep' us farming, which I think it will, by the uptake of monies, by us, ultimately leads to increased production, thereby cheaper food costs ! Climate change will have an effect, currently, we are getting a bashing on that front, and as we are not a major culprit, compared with air travel, it probably suits other industries, for us to get the blame !
But, post Brexit, the requirement of any guv, to keep food costs down, will not change, and if they can import food from anywhere cheaply, they will. But farming UK, will be wanted to produce cheaper food, and, as continued since ww2, subs are paid, more as a reason, to keep prices down. But, I am beginning to think, the whole sub/grant system, has been cleverly formulated, to encourage us to 'modernise', and by doing so, we invest large amounts of money, to make use of the grants etc, which means we have to produce more, to spread costs, over more product, the result, our product value, has not really risen for 20/30 years, however, if something runs short, the value shoots up, and then drops, because we up production.

I think you may be in for a bit of a culture shock over the next few years. You perfectly describe life in the EU and the CAP. But the people who hold the levers of power in the UK have no intention of continuing that.

 

[egbert]

personally very difficult to expand here, more land would be much dearer to rent that current AHA farm is so your on a hiding from the start.
There is plenty think its the way & are well into it, poss borrowed to the max.

in that case, invest time/money in enterprise not tied to LL...either further from home, or into a nonfarming venture.

 

[Hilly]

A large portion of the 60% goes on rent or mortgage.
As food has fallen in price, property has grabbed the spare money

This is right , it’s all to do with market share , we have lost ours how we get it back I don’t know . Subs have helped us to loose it the more for less mentality has helped but subs helped that so ......

 

[ajd132]

all parties need to keep food prices low, the old saying, a hungry man has one problem, the full one has many, which could be why veg/veganism is rising !, where the food comes from, or what quality it is, is/will be ignored, whether it is used in 'trade' deals, with 3rd world countries, or USA, as long as it is cheap. That leaves UK farmers, trying to earn a living, if the guv makes subs, or grants, to 'keep' us farming, which I think it will, by the uptake of monies, by us, ultimately leads to increased production, thereby cheaper food costs ! Climate change will have an effect, currently, we are getting a bashing on that front, and as we are not a major culprit, compared with air travel, it probably suits other industries, for us to get the blame !
But, post Brexit, the requirement of any guv, to keep food costs down, will not change, and if they can import food from anywhere cheaply, they will. But farming UK, will be wanted to produce cheaper food, and, as continued since ww2, subs are paid, more as a reason, to keep prices down. But, I am beginning to think, the whole sub/grant system, has been cleverly formulated, to encourage us to 'modernise', and by doing so, we invest large amounts of money, to make use of the grants etc, which means we have to produce more, to spread costs, over more product, the result, our product value, has not really risen for 20/30 years, however, if something runs short, the value shoots up, and then drops, because we up production.

Cloud cuckoo land

 

[John Slejpner]

£0 for cereals on 3-3.5 ton land

Cobblers!

 

[D14]

Rent will have to be more than what an environmental scheme can earn.