Starting a sucker herd

[Tom19]

Are the days of the Hereford suckler man gone

 

[Baling Hay]

 

[Henarar]

That's arguable, but if so would also bring into question the very existence of 'breeds'... deep.

for instance you will get easy and not so easy calving traits in most breeds

 

[Danllan]

for instance you will get easy and not so easy calving traits in most breeds

Yes but on analysis by an aggregate, mean, median or what have you, you'll still see that some fair far better than others, e.g. Belties compared to Belgian Blues.

I guess a bovine caesarean now costs about £100, but am open to correction because I simply don't know the going rate. That, plus associated risks and expenses, is a strong economic argument against breeding beasts that require them as often as not - or more... Plus there is a very strong argument - absolute in my opinion - that 'breeding' beasts that can't reproduce without human assistance is simply and morally wrong.

I think it's wrong for certain breeds of dogs, and I won't be a hypocrite and say it's alright for cattle because they make up part of my living. It's just wrong.

 

[Henarar]

Yes but on analysis by an aggregate, mean, median or what have you, you'll still see that some fair far better than others, e.g. Belties compared to Belgian Blues.

I guess a bovine caesarean now costs about £100, but am open to correction because I simply don't know the going rate. That, plus associated risks and expenses, is a strong economic argument against breeding beasts that require them as often as not - or more... Plus there is a very strong argument - absolute in my opinion - that 'breeding' beasts that can't reproduce without human assistance is simply and morally wrong.

I think it's wrong for certain breeds of dogs, and I won't be a hypocrite and say it's alright for cattle because they make up part of my living. It's just wrong.

we may well have more trouble with belties here than blues as they would probably get way to fat though the trouble may well be more getting in calf than giving birth but I have not kept pure bred ones to find out o can't really say for sure

I agree with your second point to the point of having some strong debate on here about the subject and that is why we keep British Blues

Not sure I get your point about dogs? can some of them not give birth on their own ? I wouldn't know. we have only had a border collie have pups here and she was fine

 

[Anymulewilldo]

I started my heard with two cows bought from Chelford mart with the dream of being in the Shorthorn pedigree society, alas that never happened so I’ve done this

Bulled with the pedigree Shorthorn for years to gradually build my herd of home bred animals, closed herd all very good blood lines and then billed to the blue. Nice short easy calving bull, specifically selected to go over my cows. Best decision I’ve made so far, come out like beans and grow like weeds. Hoping to be selling them direct to a local butcher this year round. Had to take the hit with the bull calves, or so I thought, had a good market for them in the end.

Anyway all I’ll recommend is the Shorthorn with a commercial cross I doubt you’d be disappointed but they will drive you crazy, be warned ?

I've a few blue cross cows out of shorthorn x fresian dairys. Put the lim over them and they rear a grand calf. Slip out, plenty of milk, grow like weeds and the cow keeps herself in tidy order. Trouble is my blue heifer supplier has swapped to Holstein ?and I don't want any of that in my sucklers!

 

[Danllan]

...Not sure I get your point about dogs? can some of them not give birth on their own ? I wouldn't know. we have only had a border collie have pups here and she was fine

Lots of breeds have obvious problems, pugs with breathing and the following being most well know for having difficulties with natural births: Boston terrier, bulldog, French bulldog, mastiff, Scottish terrier, miniature bull terrier, German wirehaired pointer, Clumber spaniel, Pekingese and Dandie Dinmont terrier... and you could add a lot of sheep breeds with the same anthropogenic trait...

 

[Henarar]

Lots of breeds have obvious problems, pugs with breathing and the following being most well know for having difficulties with natural births: Boston terrier, bulldog, French bulldog, mastiff, Scottish terrier, miniature bull terrier, German wirehaired pointer, Clumber spaniel, Pekingese and Dandie Dinmont terrier... and you could add a lot of sheep breeds with the same anthropogenic trait...

never really thought about them having birth problems, wouldn't be the sort of thing I would have. mainly JRT's and collie's here would think they are less "messed about" with
Your second to last word was a long one like wheelbarrow, I had to look that up

 

[Zero Homes]

Blue gray put to char bull!?

 

[Dead Rabbits]

Jersey beef is known for marbling and flavour.

A Jersey, or Jersey cross is one of the most efficient suckler cows.

But Jerseys should really be extinct - for safety reasons, every Jersey bull should be shot on sight.

That’s a bit much.

 

[Danllan]

never really thought about them having birth problems, wouldn't be the sort of thing I would have. mainly JRT's and collie's here would think they are less "messed about" with
Your second to last word was a long one like wheelbarrow, I had to look that up

Yep, we don't go for any breed that isn't practical either, just got a lovely little Welsh Sheep Dog bitch, bright as a button and lots of fun but, as my mother says, a real 'besom'!

Anthropogenic is quicker than writing 'due to human interference', it can also make one look clever.

 

[Danllan]

...But Jerseys should really be extinct - for safety reasons, every Jersey bull should be shot on sight.

That’s a bit much.

Shot before seeing?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

for instance you will get easy and not so easy calving traits in most breeds

Like the blue x bull I used across my teeny tiny heifers I had to tell the TFF collective he was BSH x instead

Nice solid calves though, no issues there

 

[Henarar]

Like the blue x bull I used across my teeny tiny heifers I had to tell the TFF collective he was BSH x instead

Nice solid calves though, no issues there

But think of all the sewing you had to do

 

[t murrr]

Well you have to ask the question who is really driving all this . Supermarket chains want certain breeds eg Hereford, Angus 16 months 24 months making farmers jump through hoops . Everybody want a beast dropping 80kg and putting on 3kg a day daily gain .When I was young dad had black white heads small cows calves would have been bigger than them at the end of the grass season kept them to 30 months got 1500 to 1600 and that's live weight in a sale

 

[Dead Rabbits]

Shot before seeing?

I guess they aren’t for everyone. We have had a lot of them with no issues.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Well you have to ask the question who is really driving all this . Supermarket chains want certain breeds eg Hereford, Angus 16 months 24 months making farmers jump through hoops . Everybody want a beast dropping 80kg and putting on 3kg a day daily gain .When I was young dad had black white heads small cows calves would have been bigger than them at the end of the grass season kept them to 30 months got 1500 to 1600 and that's live weight in a sale

Summed it up nicely, I think.

We budget on the same 1500/head at sale, only that's NZ dollars, so roughly half the payback you're talking, but the principles are exactly the same.

If I was thinking of $4000 then my costs could easily treble, and I'd be wondering where all the profit went: "job's fooked, mate"

 

[Doc]

I guess a bovine caesarean now costs about £100, but am open to correction

?

 

[t murrr]

I guess a bovine caesarean now costs about £100, but am open to correction

?

About 120 but people forget 2 out of every 10 go bad cow wont go back in calf or possibly dy so don't know how you could put a price on that natural is the only way

 

[Henarar]

I guess a bovine caesarean now costs about £100, but am open to correction

?

Correct him then, it would be interesting to know