Urea vs Nitram

[pappuller]

As a simple grass farmer, does urea take longer to start working than an or is this another myth ?

 

[CornishTone]

As a simple grass farmer, does urea take longer to start working than an or is this another myth ?

I suspect most of this was covered a few weeks ago in here, see post #3 as a starter for 10...

Urea VS AN

Urea VS AN

We are often told AN is better than urea for various reasons, usually by manufacturers. The more I learn about soil health I keep reading that urea is far better for soil biology than AN which is too salty. thoughts?

thefarmingforum.co.uk

 

[ollie989898]

Agree entirely. My preference is to start with in old money terms a bag of 34.5 AN to get early growth in cold weather which you don't get with urea and then put on all the urea in one go a fortnight later. In my experience you get nice steady grass growth through the main part of the season without any growth surges causing stock problems.

In the borders I would definitely use AN for the first dose. Maybe even the second. The kick from urea can be so slow in a cold spring.

 

[ollie989898]

As a simple grass farmer, does urea take longer to start working than an or is this another myth ?

Yes, it takes longer.

Urea is generally cheaper and more convenient to work with (it's a more concentrated product) and it is thought to be kinder to soil life, but in a cold dry spring it can take weeks to get to work. With AN, if there is some moisture about, the kick into the grass is fast, you've probably seen it.

 

[Brisel]

Urea has to go through an extra process where urease enzymes convert it to ammonium that AN doesn't. It takes a few days in early spring when frankly, there is little growth to actually stimulate so makes no difference. Posters of "I applied urea in February in the cold spell and it didn't work for weeks" stories ought to think about what they typed

 

[ollie989898]

Urea has to go through an extra process where urease enzymes convert it to ammonium that AN doesn't. It takes a few days in early spring when frankly, there is little growth to actually stimulate so makes no difference. Posters of "I applied urea in February in the cold spell and it didn't work for weeks" stories ought to think about what they typed

I have seen wheat struggling for weeks because the urea that has been applied hasn't got into the plant. With AN this problem is minimised.

You try it in a cold spring. Couple of days my chuff.

 

[Brisel]

I didn't say a couple of days, I said a few. It depends on the temperature and plenty of other factors. Compare a sugar lump to the same energy value in a lump of steak. The sugar works quicker but long term, the meat is better for you.

Show me independent trials results where AN produces more yield than urea please. A plant going greener sooner is just vanity. Cheaper fertiliser is sanity. Margin is king.

 

[Farma Parma]

I'd second that. I swapped to urea for the bulk of my N, from imported AN a few years ago and I cant see any reason to go back. I'm on light sandy high PH soil in the east so according to the trade/experts urea should be a no no but my yields are just as good if not better than with AN but the important thing is to get good big doses on early and be done by end of march/early april at a push.

And where do you farm NORFOLK... bet were 5/6weeks after you with our first doze every year.... makes a big diff using good old Nitram then !
+4c warmer than us all year round & i'll bet 100mm less rain

 

[Hjwise]

CF/Nitram marketing team are in the same league as Syngenta. It’s a shame they can’t work their magic on our outputs rather than inputs.

 

[David.]

The problem I see is being too slow off the mark in a drying spring, like we've just had. I have seen times when crops are literally starving to death looking at undissolved urea granules around their feet, applied 3 weeks before.
So I am a bit glad that I went with the expensive blue bags, and put AN on as first dose, because some years here, I think that bit of early green leaf has to sustain the crop until June.
The ideal time to have put urea on this year was 2nd week of Feb, whilst it was still raining, and wouldnt travel at all well. By 1st week of March, the boat had sailed.

 

[Henry B]

An and Urea are 2 different animals, which in my experience can both achieve the same result. Urea in my experience if used like An will give you a poorer result. Some people are in denial, it’s well proven now that Urea left on the surface, as temperatures are rising in the spring, will volatilise.
We find Urea brilliant in early spring, much better and safer than An. We also find Urea a pain in years like this trying to time applications just before a good rain event. Where as if we use An we can just throw it on and let it
wait for rain.

 

[Brisel]

An and Urea are 2 different animals, which in my experience can both achieve the same result. Urea in my experience if used like An will give you a poorer result. Some people are in denial, it’s well proven now that Urea left on the surface, as temperatures are rising in the spring, will volatilise.
We find Urea brilliant in early spring, much better and safer than An. We also find Urea a pain in years like this trying to time applications just before a good rain event. Where as if we use An we can just throw it on and let it
wait for rain.

Where is that proof?

 

[David.]

Its probably circumstantial, but when you see white powdery granules on the floor 3wks after spreading, and when there is a drying wind at 20c blowing.....

 

[Oh bullocks]

All urea and happy with it. Just go earlier with a big dose and finish earlier or before a weather event. The cost saving is just too much to ignore but then I don't listen to all the an sales marketing talk. All the talk is about urea gassing off but equally what about the risk of an leaching

 

[Farmer Roy]

Did anyone bother reading the Australian research into volatilisation of urea ?

 

[thameslade]

Been using Adidas for years! Spreads great at 24M but have found it best used for second and final applications as double top works quicker on the first application in Scotland.

 

[CornishTone]

Its probably circumstantial, but when you see white powdery granules on the floor 3wks after spreading, and when there is a drying wind at 20c blowing.....

The white powder is just the carrier. That doesn’t necessarily mean the N has volatilised off as ammonia, it just means there hasn’t been enough water to wash the carrier away completely.

Urea requires in the region of 27/28 degs before volatilisation becomes an issue. How often do we get those sort of temperatures for prolonged periods... even in the last 3 months?

Urea attracts moisture well. Go out first thing and you’ll see a damp patch under the granule on otherwise dry soil. It only takes a heavy dew to get the urea itself into the soil and away from the risky temps.

 

[ollie989898]

I didn't say a couple of days, I said a few. It depends on the temperature and plenty of other factors. Compare a sugar lump to the same energy value in a lump of steak. The sugar works quicker but long term, the meat is better for you.

Show me independent trials results where AN produces more yield than urea please. A plant going greener sooner is just vanity. Cheaper fertiliser is sanity. Margin is king.

Never said yield is any different, but I've seen it several times, farmer applies Urea to his wheat/grass and it sits there looking more and more ill by the day whilst matey's next door is off and away. Colour is certainly not vanity when you have a crop going backwards in spring.

 

[Farmer Roy]

The white powder is just the carrier. That doesn’t necessarily mean the N has volatilised off as ammonia, it just means there hasn’t been enough water to wash the carrier away completely.

Urea requires in the region of 27/28 degs before volatilisation becomes an issue. How often do we get those sort of temperatures for prolonged periods... even in the last 3 months?

Urea attracts moisture well. Go out first thing and you’ll see a damp patch under the granule on otherwise dry soil. It only takes a heavy dew to get the urea itself into the soil and away from the risky temps.

As I’ve said repeatedly, urea is spread as common practice here over a wide range of our cropping regions, encompassing a number of vastly different climatic & geographic conditions
Our growers aren’t in the habit of throwing money away if they were getting losses . . .

 

[Farmer Roy]

Err, just as an aside, if moisture is limiting or we are going into a dry season, we tend to limit or reduce or N applications . . .


no one ever said, “sh!t, me wheats looking a bit crook cos it’s as dry as a dead dingos donga, I better chuck some more N on to give it a boost”

the most crucial nutrient is water . . ,