Whats in your AI tank??

[Tim W]

Cervical AI is rubbish, especially with frozen semen. Why aren't you going laproscopic?

Because I want to be able to DIY inseminate my own sheep
Cervical AI is used with success in many Scandinavian countries so I figure I should give it a go too
Did some a few weeks ago on another farm with frozen semen and over 50% have held

 

[Ysgythan]

50% is a poor return.

 

[Tim W]

50% is a poor return.

For a first attempt I am happy with 50% ------ when I first started AI with cattle I was on about 50% but over 2 months got up to about 70%
With sheep I expect it to be a longer learning curve as we only breed them for a few weeks a year compared with dairy cattle breeding all year around (plus I learnt cattle AI on a large dairy where I was inseminating 60+ cows /day )

 

[George C]

When I first started cervical AI with fresh semen I got around 50% hold but with more experience could consistently get 70 - 80% - sounds like a good start to me.

 

[Tim W]

When I first started cervical AI with fresh semen I got around 50% hold but with more experience could consistently get 70 - 80% - sounds like a good start to me.

Thanks @George C --- gives me some confidence
All the doomsayers tell me that cervical AI is crap (often with no personal experience ) but the Scandinavian model and good vet advice suggests it is worth a go

 

[sheep breeder]

Fair play to you Tim,a great skill to have not everybody can master it and if you can get 50 per cent at first try you can only get better and able to do it on your own farm is a big help.

 

[Ysgythan]

Thanks @George C --- gives me some confidence
All the doomsayers tell me that cervical AI is crap (often with no personal experience ) but the Scandinavian model and good vet advice suggests it is worth a go

We have done cervical AI with fresh semen. Main issue is how many ewes you can do with one jump. It tails off rapidly, so there's no ability to do large numbers with one ram. Granted you get more than services to a sponge, but nowhere near the same as laparoscopic.

With the laparoscope you have a professional at the end of it. You get advance notice of issues you don't get with any other system. Even with a laparoscope there's a difference between the quality of live and frozen semen. The best frozen is better than poor fresh of course, but generally speaking.

It seems to me that if you go to the expense of buying frozen semen, you want it to be from a particular ram, and as such you want as many to be in lamb to that tup as possible. Why then take a 10-40% hit in conception rates from a lesser technology? It may be cheaper to get it in cervically, but if the lambs aren't going to pay you back the cost of maximising conception rates are you really better off doing cervical AI than just running the tup?

We went through this process twenty years ago. The Vet does thousands of sheep in Australia, New Zealand, the Middle East and in the UK. They all use a laparoscope.

 

[George C]

So should we just ignore the fact that the Scandinavians are achieving conception rates similar to laparoscopic with frozen cervical? and that they are saving the cost of the vet, sponges and PMSG?
It might turn out that it is easier with their breeds or that some other factor is boosting conception rates for them but unless someone tries it here using their techniques we will never know.

 

[Ysgythan]

So should we just ignore the fact that the Scandinavians are achieving conception rates similar to laparoscopic with frozen cervical? and that they are saving the cost of the vet, sponges and PMSG?
It might turn out that it is easier with their breeds or that some other factor is boosting conception rates for them but unless someone tries it here using their techniques we will never know.

We pay the Vet for expertise, not just the mechanics.

The cost of sponges and PMSG are still there, or if not the cost of labour of observing oestrus in sheep is displacing that cost with a far higher one.

Cervical AI has been tried here and found wanting. 70-80% is not a comparable first time conception rate. If you can make sense of it in your circumstances then fine, but I just can't see it.

 

[George C]

We pay the Vet for expertise, not just the mechanics.

The cost of sponges and PMSG are still there, or if not the cost of labour of observing oestrus in sheep is displacing that cost with a far higher one.

Cervical AI has been tried here and found wanting. 70-80% is not a comparable first time conception rate. If you can make sense of it in your circumstances then fine, but I just can't see it.

I agree that it wouldn't be for everyone but if it is successful it could open up AI to some who don't do it at the moment.

The labour cost is an interesting one and it probably would be higher. It would be a little bit of work every day for 17 or so days as opposed to one day of a lot of work. When we do laparoscopic as well as paying for the vet and an assistant I usually have to employ a couple of extra people to help with turning the ewes in to and out of the trolleys. The sponges have got to be put in and taken out couple of weeks later and the PMSG injected.

 

[Ysgythan]

Not convinced by cervical, but certainly not convinced by unsynchronised cervical AI. How on earth do you have certainty on oestrus timings? That is after all a big plus of the laparoscope, you can have a look at the gubbins.

 

[George C]

Can't say that I have ever done it but it can be done.

Put a crayon on a teaser and divide out and inseminate the marked ones. In Scandinavia they use an 'aproned' ram. I read somewhere that they AI 40 million sheep a year in Russia like that.

 

[Ysgythan]

Can be done and should be done are two different things. By all means, spend a month wondering if you've changed the crayon enough, whether that's a service mark or the teaser has jumped up on an unsuspecting one. Thawing a pellet or two of semen a day etc. If you can't afford the sponges and labour what on earth are you doing buying frozen semen?

 

[George C]

I didn't say I couldn't afford the sponges and labour - most years I lap AI 50 - 70 ewes - but it doesn't stop me being interested in another way of doing it.

 

[Ysgythan]

I didn't say I couldn't afford the sponges and labour - most years I lap AI 50 - 70 ewes - but it doesn't stop me being interested in another way of doing it.

It does not, no.

 

[davieogrutha]

How has folks got on with Keeldrum Clio calves?

Got a in calf heifer by clio here James if ye want tae see it. Did what the ebv's said. Good growth to start off wae then slowed doon.

 

[davieogrutha]

Lim:
Eravelle
Duc
Hugo
Hamlet
Trumps

Blonde:
Diego
Elmo
Sauveur

Parthenaise:
Balto
Atomic
Brigadier

Stabiliser:
Merlin
Black resolution

British blue:
Geronimo
Carlos

Sim:
Clio

AA:
Farenheit

Gelbvieh
Warrior

Plus a few straws of an angus and a south Devon that was thrown in the tank for getting started.

 

[Ysgythan]

Can't you make your mind up on breeds?

 

[davieogrutha]

Didn't see the point in having an A.I.tank an not doing a bit of experimenting. Don't like going down one route o cattle. Couple lines o muscle will then try a more maternal breed and vice versa.

 

[Jonny B88]

Wilodge Goldcard
Banwy Wonderboy
Givendale Norseman
Blackgold Mikado
Graymar Iceman
Cor
Lennard

How do you get on with Norseman? TIA