Where will the Dutch go?

[czechmate]

Which is a bloody stupid way of trying to have a dig while making it bleeding obvious that you aren't scientifically literate. Jog on...

I’m certainly no “ climate change denier “ and agree with the thread, except my dad always had a love for Wells next the sea, so I visited there regularly between 1960-2013 (and had a boat there for more than half that time- hence the long term interest), now obviously the water goes up and down the quay wall twice every day and is more and less extream every month but I can’t say the highs ever got any higher in my years of observation .
As you say, strong wind in a certain direction combined with low pressure and high tide has been causing flooding for more than a century

 

[Johnnyboxer]

Which is a bloody stupid way of trying to have a dig while making it bleeding obvious that you aren't scientifically literate. Jog on...

No digs here

I see a theme with your threads

Always stirring controversy

Absolutely no need for your condescending tone either, so......Jog on

 

[caveman]

I did look to see if it was April 1st. But no 'tis not. I will look again in a month to see if published on the correct day.

Perhaps the first thing put across the North Sea would be a dam containing turbines to harvest the immense power and energy of all that water rushing up and down the channel every day?

 

[Danllan]

I've been looking at rainfall recently and, as one does, strayed to another topic... sea level rise, again.

The latest figures put conservative rises in sea level to be 12" / 30cm by 2050, and well over 6'8" / 2m by 2100. This predicts a huge rise, even half that amount would be impossible for the Netherlands' engineers to counter, so I have to ask my original question again... where will the Dutch go?

The vaunted damming of the North Sea at either end of the English Channel and across from Scotland to Norway is never going to happen, for strategic, economic and environmental reasons.

The Dutch will therefore have to be crowded onto an ever dwindling area, build floating cities, or move... but to where? Will millions of Dutch move elsewhere and become German, French etc.? Will they set up and become effective Dutch enclaves in other countries? Or will the neighbours of the Netherlands donate neighbouring territory to them, to allow it to persist as functioning nation state?

If anyone can think of other reasonable options I'll be grateful to read them; but, for now, those five options seem the only alternatives.

 

[TelesnaAg]

Don’t stress we are going to turn inland Australia back into an ocean as we need more ocean front to live on, I’ve already bought a swag of dirt on a rise which will have beautiful views.

This will soak up the excess not a drama.

plus likely attract more rain so we can expand farming and supply Europe as they slowly systematically close down there farming capabilities due to the shock in rising sea levels, especially given that earth has never had a varying sea level before in its existence so this is really cause for alarm.

we were always predicted to be the food bowl of Asia but that’s now swapped to the food bowl of Europe.

I feel like I have hit the Jack pot as it won’t be as far to drive to go for a swim and there will be less dirt making mine worth more with an expanding population, can’t believe how lucky I am.

Ant….

 

[FonterraFarmer]

Don’t stress we are going to turn inland Australia back into an ocean as we need more ocean front to live on, I’ve already bought a swag of dirt on a rise which will have beautiful views.

This will soak up the excess not a drama.

plus likely attract more rain so we can expand farming and supply Europe as they slowly systematically close down there farming capabilities due to the shock in rising sea levels, especially given that earth has never had a varying sea level before in its existence so this is really cause for alarm.

we were always predicted to be the food bowl of Asia but that’s now swapped to the food bowl of Europe.

I feel like I have hit the Jack pot as it won’t be as far to drive to go for a swim and there will be less dirt making mine worth more with an expanding population, can’t believe how lucky I am.

Ant….

We don't know how lucky we are.....

 

[M-J-G]

There will be a lot more than the Dutch to find homes for by 2100

 

[Danllan]

There will be a lot more than the Dutch to find homes for by 2100

Yep, I mentioned Bangladesh earlier, but there will be more still from elsewhere. I don't think there will be a huge attempt at migration North from Africa though. This is because global warming and higher sea levels tend to increase rainfall in the driest parts of Africa, meaning more areas will be cultivable - that won't negate the stupid breeding rates there though...

 

[ollie989898]

Dutch have already got plans- put a dam across the channel and North Sea.

 

[TelesnaAg]

I’ll believe the sea rise when I see it as most of these predictions fall over, I could be wrong of course but it’s a money making narrative so buyer beware.

Ant…

 

[Danllan]

Dutch have already got plans- put a dam across the channel and North Sea.

Covered that, never going to happen.

I’ll believe the sea rise when I see it as most of these predictions fall over, I could be wrong of course but it’s a money making narrative so buyer beware.

Ant…

If you are scientifically literate to even the most basic level, it is now a given fact. If you aren't, or are a religionist of some sort, then facts won't make any difference to you anyway.

 

[TelesnaAg]

Covered that, never going to happen.


If you are scientifically literate to even the most basic level, it is now a given fact. If you aren't, or are a religionist of some sort, then facts won't make any difference to you anyway.

That’s not what I’m saying

Have you personally gone over the maths and modelling used? Have they released what data was used and algorithms etc.

Most times we the public are treated as dummy’s and the data stays private.



Id like to see it

 

[Danllan]

That’s not what I’m saying

Have you personally gone over the maths and modelling used? Have they released what data was used and algorithms etc.

Most times we the public are treated as dummy’s and the data stays private.



Id like to see it

Yes, my first degree was in geology and - although I disliked it at the time - two modules of it were about global climate change, under the superb Prof. D. Q. Bowen. That was in the late 90s and subsequent, improved, models and analysis have reinforced the original findings for the most part. Where they differ is that the original work is now deemed to have been too conservative in its predictions.

All Western academic institutions publish their data freely, all papers are in the public domain and are fully referenced. What we are discussing isn't fringe stuff from people with an agenda for whatever, it is mainstream and backed by - now - countless papers and incontrovertible evidence. Any trying to argue against it are either demonstrable nuts, or are just courting controversy for the publicity thus garnered.

So, you are free to peruse the net and read any paper and its references as you choose. But, since you seem a wee bit of a sceptic, I'll ask if you ever use any form of drugs or medication, and if you have researched them to the nth degree? If you are honest, the answer will be no; and that's because you trust that the peer reviewed trials and papers on them are sufficient for you to place trust in them. And the same probably goes for aircraft and cars too.

You can go to many places and see real-time evidence of sea-level rise; I don't know how old you are, but if you and me make it to 2050, I'll be perfectly happy to whimper 'I told you so'.

 

[TelesnaAg]

Yes, my first degree was in geology and - although I disliked it at the time - two modules of it were about global climate change, under the superb Prof. D. Q. Bowen. That was in the late 90s and subsequent, improved, models and analysis have reinforced the original findings for the most part. Where they differ is that the original work is now deemed to have been too conservative in its predictions.

All Western academic institutions publish their data freely, all papers are in the public domain and are fully referenced. What we are discussing isn't fringe stuff from people with an agenda for whatever, it is mainstream and backed by - now - countless papers and incontrovertible evidence. Any trying to argue against it are either demonstrable nuts, or are just courting controversy for the publicity thus garnered.

So, you are free to peruse the net and read any paper and its references as you choose. But, since you seem a wee bit of a sceptic, I'll ask if you ever use any form of drugs or medication, and if you have researched them to the nth degree? If you are honest, the answer will be no; and that's because you trust that the peer reviewed trials and papers on them are sufficient for you to place trust in them. And the same probably goes for aircraft and cars too.

You can go to many places and see real-time evidence of sea-level rise; I don't know how old you are, but if you and me make it to 2050, I'll be perfectly happy to whimper 'I told you so'.

I’ll be around in 2050

There are a lot of variation in a lot of models, so who is correct? Or do we apply blind averaging.

The part I struggle with is as sea levels increase how does the weather change with it?

I’ve been listening to podcast studies on the earths centre by scientists and most admit they don’t have a lot of accurate answers, yet we seem to somehow have the science down pat 100% reliable that the USA coastline will rise by 30cm by 2050.

I don’t have much hope the carbon emissions will reduce as I’m yet to see any real program that will address the core issues of human consumption.

Then it is assumed the rise in sea levels will be detrimental? Will it really, displace a bunch of people would be a god send for this planet.

will low lying areas benefit from increased sea levels? Lake eyre in oz is 15 metres below sea level, when it’s full it is rare the eastern seaboard has a drought, so there could actually be added advantages.

Humans are stupid, they live at sea level or by a river susceptible to flooding and blame every other factor they can instead of there own stupidity for the discomfort experience.

Ant…

 

[Danllan]

I’ll be around in 2050

There are a lot of variation in a lot of models, so who is correct? Or do we apply blind averaging.

The part I struggle with is as sea levels increase how does the weather change with it?

I’ve been listening to podcast studies on the earths centre by scientists and most admit they don’t have a lot of accurate answers, yet we seem to somehow have the science down pat 100% reliable that the USA coastline will rise by 30cm by 2050.

I don’t have much hope the carbon emissions will reduce as I’m yet to see any real program that will address the core issues of human consumption.

Then it is assumed the rise in sea levels will be detrimental? Will it really, displace a bunch of people would be a god send for this planet.

will low lying areas benefit from increased sea levels? Lake eyre in oz is 15 metres below sea level, when it’s full it is rare the eastern seaboard has a drought, so there could actually be added advantages.

Humans are stupid, they live at sea level or by a river susceptible to flooding and blame every other factor they can instead of there own stupidity for the discomfort experience.

Ant…

I'm obviously a bit older than you, so I may have to record it in advance for you to open later.

As for the rest, I know places near here that have a visibly higher mean water level now. It may only be about four or five inches, but when I was a child certain large flat rocks were picnic spots at most high tides, now they usually aren't - and this is borne out by scientific measurement at various points along the coast.

Climate, meaning weather, change is fairly predictable on the macro scale, as in temp' rise and large current movement; but anyone telling you that they can predict accurate micro / local change isn't a scientist.

Obviously, as with a greener North Africa in periods of higher temp's and sea level, some areas benefit from climate change - or more accurately, benefit as we would see it - and some don't. But it's swings and roundabouts; following the last big ice melt sea levels rose by several hundred feet, there are huge areas that had human habitation (and probably civilisation) under deep water now. But, had it not been warm enough for that, large areas of the world would not now be inhabitable.

I wouldn't argue that living on a flood-plane of a river or the sea isn't daft; but we are where we are, people do live in these places now and, pretty soon, they won't be able to. So, again, where will they go?

 

[manhill]

Perhaps the first thing put across the North Sea would be a dam containing turbines to harvest the immense power and energy of all that water rushing up and down the channel every day?

and as a bonus, all that energy in the waves those inflatables make.

 

[kfpben]

The Dutch have done well wherever they have gone. Especially the farmers.

I’m sure Africa, Oz, Eastern/ Central Europe, (even Russia if it calms down) will welcome some of the most progressive farmers in the world.

 

[Danllan]

The Dutch have done well wherever they have gone. Especially the farmers.

I’m sure Africa, Oz, Eastern/ Central Europe, (even Russia if it calms down) will welcome some of the most progressive farmers in the world.

I wouldn't be so sure about in Africa, too many chips on shoulders for any role there other than managerial; but I agree with the remainder.

 

[stewart]

Covered that, never going to happen.


If you are scientifically literate to even the most basic level, it is now a given fact. If you aren't, or are a religionist of some sort, then facts won't make any difference to you anyway.

It was also a scientific “fact” that we were all going to succumb to CJD. I didn’t lose any sleep over that and will lose none over the predicted sea level rise.

 

[stewart]

As for the rest, I know places near here that have a visibly higher mean water level now. It may only be about four or five inches, but when I was a child certain large flat rocks were picnic spots at most high tides, now they usually aren't

Maybe the rocks have sunk.