Deere or Fendt

Pheasant Surprise · Oct 10, 2019

Galcam said:
When they demonstrated the Fendt to me all they did was use that wheel on side of screen. Since I had a 6615S Vario, a Fendt in MF clothing I was told, and it has a Mickey Mouse datatronic non touch screen I assumed incorrectly that any parameters to be changed would be with thumb wheel.

In some situations the wheel is ok, but 99.999% of the time you want to be navigating using the touch facility.

That demo you had must’ve been brief or not really that useful in terms of using or getting grips with the capability of the machine.

Alwaysworking · Oct 10, 2019

Galcam said:
When they demonstrated the Fendt to me all they did was use that wheel on side of screen. Since I had a 6615S Vario, a Fendt in MF clothing I was told, and it has a Mickey Mouse datatronic non touch screen I assumed incorrectly that any parameters to be changed would be with thumb wheel.

Ah cool.

to be fair, the Fendt guy said that the touch screen was too difficult to use in a moving machine and that’s where the dial & buttons are handy.

Pheasant Surprise · Oct 10, 2019

Alwaysworking said:
Ah cool.

to be fair, the Fendt guy said that the touch screen was too difficult to use in a moving machine and that’s where the dial & buttons are handy.

He’s talking crap. Just steady your hand on the top of the terminal if your bouncing around and use your thumb. Piece of cake.

Alwaysworking · Oct 10, 2019

Pheasant Surprise said:
He’s talking crap. Just steady your hand on the top of the terminal if your bouncing around and use your thumb. Piece of cake.

you haven’t seen my fingers

also, ours isn’t the bigger Profi screen

Boysground · Oct 10, 2019

Alwaysworking said:
Ah cool.

to be fair, the Fendt guy said that the touch screen was too difficult to use in a moving machine and that’s where the dial & buttons are handy.

Sounds like the Fendt guy needs to drive his tractors more. The touchscreen works very well. Not unlike the jd screen.

Bg

Clive · Oct 10, 2019

Alwaysworking said:
Without giving figures of the deal, our cost of changing from the Deere 6630 to the Fendt 516 is £10/hr.

Obviously the Fendt is an increase in horsepower and it’s CVT with a 2000hr warranty.

How does this sound?

what matters is cost of the tractor you are trading - don’t confuse it with this “cost to change” rubbish which means nothing

the true cost of your outgoing JD is simply difference between new price paid and used value now plus any R&M cost divided by hours you have done

it’s replacement has no relevance to the cost of your out going machine

Chae1 · Oct 11, 2019

Why would machinery salesman invent it?

I fail to see how the cost to change is rubbish? Its the most important figure when I'm doing a deal as its how much moneys coming out of my pocket to replace my machine for a new one.

Salesmen can and do fudge these figures so it looks like your getting more for trade in. For example add on 10k to trade in and add on 10k to new price. Same cost to change. But this makes Clive think his fendt depreciated even less than it really did and he can puff his chest out down the pub about low cost of fendt ownership.

lloyd · Oct 11, 2019

Its inflation which makes people think their cost if ownership has been
low.There is no doubt that apart from electrical goods , food and a few other
items real inflation has been running alot higher than the government figures.
These low cost of ownership figures would only work if there was zero or negative inflation over several years.

Bossfarmer · Oct 11, 2019

Alwaysworking said:
No point creating a thread, asking questions and receiving advice without giving an end result.

Ended up ordering a 516 Fendt. With Fendt loader. PowerPlus spec. Autosteer included.

First Fendt here do it’ll be interesting to see how it goes.

Clive said:
I paid 115 for a Fendt 5 years ago - I sold it for 80 - depreciation = 35k

I was quoted 110 for a JD 5 years ago at the same time - value 5 yrs later more like 60 from ads I saw so depreciation = circa 50K

I think I made the right choice of brands 5 years ago ??

I don't give a dam about the cost to change, - if I did I would have traded my 724 for a Kubota and made money I care about cost of use as that's what makeup muy cost of production

cost to change is an interesting yet very pointless number invented by salesmen - It's ownership cost that matters, so depreciation plus R&M over the period you own use the machine

the cost of my current 140k tractor will become clear when I come to sell it in 5 years or whenever the time comes and will be the difference between £140k and the second-hand value plus cost of R&M - what I buy its replacement for does not affect the cost of what I have now !!! what an odd concept that would be !

What you are saying is had I replaced my old 724 with a cheaper replacement then my 724 suddenly cost less over the last 5 years than it actually did ?? if I could have maybe got a new valtra to replace it with for 120k then my 724 only cost me 1k per year rather than 7k !!! ...............interesting logic!

your Fendt was good value last time but realistically will your 5 year old 140k fendt fetch 105k in 5 years time, logic says no, if you keep it and run it past 10k hrs your max value then will be 30-35k, scary numbers

Speedstar · Oct 11, 2019

Bossfarmer said:
your Fendt was good value last time but realistically will your 5 year old 140k fendt fetch 105k in 5 years time, logic says no, if you keep it and run it past 10k hrs your max value then will be 30-35k, scary numbers

Will be worth more than 30 -35 k with 10k + on it ,but it will sell with big hour's on it unlike other makes

Alwaysworking · Oct 11, 2019

Bossfarmer said:
your Fendt was good value last time but realistically will your 5 year old 140k fendt fetch 105k in 5 years time, logic says no, if you keep it and run it past 10k hrs your max value then will be 30-35k, scary numbers

30-35sounds low to me.

this hasn’t 10k hours but its price is a long way from 35k....

Fendt 724 PROFI PLUS - Agriaffaires

View 2012 Fendt 724 PROFI PLUS Farm Tractor at 85000 EUR in Ireland | Agriaffaires

www.agriaffaires.co.uk

Clive · Oct 11, 2019

Chae1 said:
Why would machinery salesman invent it?

I fail to see how the cost to change is rubbish? Its the most important figure when I'm doing a deal as its how much moneys coming out of my pocket to replace my machine for a new one.

Salesmen can and do fudge these figures so it looks like your getting more for trade in. For example add on 10k to trade in and add on 10k to new price. Same cost to change. But this makes Clive think his fendt depreciated even less than it really did and he can puff his chest out down the pub about low cost of fendt ownership.

It makes Clive actually wonder if he’s the only farmer in TFF who understand how to cost a machine !!

if only I had been smart enough to replace my 115k 724 with a 15 k tractor - I would have made 100k out of running it for 5 years based on this “cost to change” logic ?

When did you last see a “cost to change” line on a set of accounts ? Pretty sure your accounts will have a depreciation line in them however

Clive · Oct 11, 2019

Bossfarmer said:
your Fendt was good value last time but realistically will your 5 year old 140k fendt fetch 105k in 5 years time, logic says no, if you keep it and run it past 10k hrs your max value then will be 30-35k, scary numbers

I have no idea what the current machine will be worth - when I do I will know what my true cost of ownership has been

my budgets depreciate it at the same rate as the last one - is basically the same machine so in % terms will likely depreciate at similar rate

as you say the last one was pretty good value really hence why I’ve gone with the same again

ollie989898 · Oct 11, 2019

Galcam said:
When they demonstrated the Fendt to me all they did was use that wheel on side of screen. Since I had a 6615S Vario, a Fendt in MF clothing I was told, and it has a Mickey Mouse datatronic non touch screen I assumed incorrectly that any parameters to be changed would be with thumb wheel.

Understandable. They saw your Massey and thought cripes better keep this simple for this bloke....?

Chae1 · Oct 11, 2019

Clive said:
It makes Clive actually wonder if he’s the only farmer in TFF who understand how to cost a machine

if only I had been smart enough to replace my 115k 724 with a 15 k tractor - I would have made 100k out of running it for 5 years based on this “cost to change” logic ?

When did you last see a “cost to change” line on a set of accounts ? Pretty sure your accounts will have a depreciation line in them however

I know you sold it privately so do have a true cost to change. Was winding you up a bit on that one.

I've had someone seriously tell me they've actually made money on a tractor as trade in value on new one is more than what they paid for it. So most people don't know true cost to run it until they sell it privately or retire.

The depreciation line on your accounts isn't very accurate? Or isn't on ours. They just depreciate at a set percentage of value each year.

It is obviously only a relevant figure if changing to a similar/same spec tractor as you have done.

If your a contractor for example working out hourly rate for tractor and man, by factoring in the likely cost to change you know your making enough money to pay for replacement tractor. Of course you don't know this figure until you come to change it.

Clive · Oct 11, 2019

Don’t mix up what you pay for any machine with what that machine costs you

very different things and I’m far more interested in the cost of things than their price tag

ollie989898 · Oct 11, 2019

Fragonard said:
you got 80k for 14 model, and you said new replacement one is 140k.
So how can cost to change be 35k?

He said cost of ownership not cost to change.

If he did what I said at the outset and bought an 828 and then replaced it with a 724 where this mythical cost to change would have been smaller does that make the 828 cheaper to own?

Cost to change is snake-charming salesman speak. It means nothing.

Clive · Oct 11, 2019

Chae1 said:
I know you sold it privately so do have a true cost to change. Was winding you up a bit on that one.

I've had someone seriously tell me they've actually made money on a tractor as trade in value on new one is more than what they paid for it. So most people don't know true cost to run it until they sell it privately or retire.

The depreciation line on your accounts isn't very accurate? Or isn't on ours. They just depreciate at a set percentage of value each year.

It is obviously only a relevant figure if changing to a similar/same spec tractor as you have done.

If your a contractor for example working out hourly rate for tractor and man, by factoring in the likely cost to change you know your making enough money to pay for replacement tractor. Of course you don't know this figure until you come to change it.

depreciation figures in my management accounts and budgets are pretty accurate - not the same as in my tax account however

kiwi pom · Oct 11, 2019

I'd buy whatever was the cheapest to own but how do you know what the cheapest to own will be in advance?
Also if Fendt are the cheapest to own (and I'm not saying they aren't) why do they sell in relatively low numbers in, for example the UK?
Has everyone got it wrong, or can they just not afford the initial price?

NorthEastLad · Oct 11, 2019

Clive said:
It makes Clive actually wonder if he’s the only farmer in TFF who understand how to cost a machine !!

if only I had been smart enough to replace my 115k 724 with a 15 k tractor - I would have made 100k out of running it for 5 years based on this “cost to change” logic ?

When did you last see a “cost to change” line on a set of accounts ? Pretty sure your accounts will have a depreciation line in them however

Makes sense to me for example;

Tractor number 1 cost £150,000 its then sold for £130,000
Tractor number 2 cost £100,000 its then sold for £60,000

Even though tractor number 2 was cheaper the lost/used captial is greater than the more expensive tractor.

Bit simplistic but easy enough to follow.

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