Bull warranty.. Or not.

sodbuster · May 30, 2021

What the OP has failed to tell us is that the bull wasnt actually sold under the hammer. I was at the sale that day and have checked my catalogue. I have that bull down as a no sale at 2800. So a deal must of been struck in the pens afterwards. Is this still under society regulations?
I agree breeder is in the wrong. However........

juke · May 30, 2021

sodbuster said:
What the OP has failed to tell us is that the bull wasnt actually sold under the hammer. I was at the sale that day and have checked my catalogue. I have that bull down as a no sale at 2800. So a deal must of been struck in the pens afterwards. Is this still under society regulations?
I agree breeder is in the wrong. However........

Slightly grey area when sold out the pens, however the bull is still sold through the marts book so should be stood by

Skintagain · May 30, 2021

Something stinks here a bit i reckon

JSmith · May 30, 2021

juke said:
Slightly grey area when sold out the pens, however the bull is still sold through the marts book so should be stood by

If the man sold him as fit to work, never mind in the ring or stood in the car park, if he’s an honourable bloke he should sort the problem out one way or another!! If he’d bought him out the culls as a chance then fair enough but he’s sold him right to breed an he’s not, supposedly, so I still say the mans an àrsehole if he doesn’t put the job right!!! This is how people get a bad name

som farmer · May 30, 2021

sodbuster said:
What the OP has failed to tell us is that the bull wasnt actually sold under the hammer. I was at the sale that day and have checked my catalogue. I have that bull down as a no sale at 2800. So a deal must of been struck in the pens afterwards. Is this still under society regulations?
I agree breeder is in the wrong. However........

should that really make a difference, as he obviously failed to make the reserve, he must have passed the 'inspection', the seller was a member, bulls sell by looks, and recommendation, if a reputable breeder, whether sold through the ring, or outside, he should stand behind his stock, a reputation is easily lost. Can understand the auctioneers not being over helpful, if the money didn't go through them.

thorpe · May 30, 2021

som farmer said:
should that really make a difference, as he obviously failed to make the reserve, he must have passed the 'inspection', the seller was a member, bulls sell by looks, and recommendation, if a reputable breeder, whether sold through the ring, or outside, he should stand behind his stock, a reputation is easily lost. Can understand the auctioneers not being over helpful, if the money didn't go through them.

hope his repution is lost.

Happy · May 30, 2021

som farmer said:
should that really make a difference, as he obviously failed to make the reserve, he must have passed the 'inspection', the seller was a member, bulls sell by looks, and recommendation, if a reputable breeder, whether sold through the ring, or outside, he should stand behind his stock, a reputation is easily lost. Can understand the auctioneers not being over helpful, if the money didn't go through them.

Have found vendors still put them through the mart if sold on the day.

Have bought bulls in pens having gone through sale ring unsold a couple of times and once for having failed pre sale inspection.

On all 3 occasions vendor insisted on doing it through the auctioneers.
Maybe just a sign of being the more honest type.

Downtrodden Dad · May 30, 2021

I have on two occasions gone to the auctioneers with issues about warranty and never found them much help, from my point of view.

Skintagain · May 30, 2021

I would love to hear the breeders version of this

but if this was me I would call the breeder up and tell him I was on my way to him to drop the bull off and sort it out when you get there. No good over phone etc.

give Mart a call too and they can send someone to farm to mediate when you get there @Estuarybeef

jamesy · May 30, 2021

Ach your just needing Tony Booth on the case.......

juke · May 30, 2021

jamesy said:
Ach your just needing Tony Booth on the case.......

I've been waiting on this after seeing the ear tag number

M-J-G · May 30, 2021

Agrivator said:
Yes. If the breeder is uncooperative, it usually costs too much in time and money.

The alternative is to send the boys round with a baseball bat........................................................................ and to challenge him to a game of rounders.

I wouldn't do that, the breeder has a body guard, look what happened the last time when they were at the Lim sale.

M-J-G · May 30, 2021

When someone sells what's classed as a breeding bull, it must be as described.

It's basic trade descriptions

Werzle · May 31, 2021

Happy said:
Have found vendors still put them through the mart if sold on the day.

Have bought bulls in pens having gone through sale ring unsold a couple of times and once for having failed pre sale inspection.

On all 3 occasions vendor insisted on doing it through the auctioneers.
Maybe just a sign of being the more honest type.

If they put it through the auctioneers they know they will get paid even if your cheque bounces, if they take a cheque direct off you and it bounces they are f##ked , so i think its more about them being carefull rather than honest.

neilo · May 31, 2021

Werzle said:
I get what your saying but if people want better prices a fertility test will help imo. Very often a proven 3 yr old + bull sold on a normal market day will make more than the average at a pedigree sale. There has also been too many bulls bred for the cows that need them . Alot of the bulls at pedigree sales have awful feet and mobility too.

There’s no reason a vendor couldn’t voluntarily have a fertility test done prior to the sale, if it were to lead to better prices. I somehow doubt it would though, as folks would still clammer after the one with a rosette and a wobbly great arse.

egbert · May 31, 2021

Werzle said:
If they put it through the auctioneers they know they will get paid even if your cheque bounces, if they take a cheque direct off you and it bounces they are f##ked , so i think its more about them being carefull rather than honest.

it's a lot more than that.
If i have a deal outside the ring, i almost always insist it goes through the books, as otherwise, next year, when the mart has gone bust, where will we all congregate?
In the street?
Pony fairs are the worst, I know some where a 'mobile' section of the vendors would just turn up with equines for sale with no intention of putting them through the ring.
More trade would be done in the lorry park than in the mart...and auctioneers would be left with no income at all left to such selfish behaviour.
I believe some now charge a hefty entry fee per beast to allow anyone on site at all!

As for OP, it's possible the bull has picked something up, had a fever which cooked his swimmers, and needs a minute.
I'd not be too hasty.
Equally, if the bull does prove unable to get calves by natural service, the vendor would be a muppet not to take it back.
Does he want the OP stood ringside next year asking in a loud voice 'will this one will be fertile?'

I generally expect half the price back, or thereabouts, in the event of a complete non-breeder- the other costs are far more than the loss on the sire.

(Although I'm minded of a pal who paid £8-10k for the rosetted champ backalong -no names no pack drill-, and found it would only get a handful per year -I think 6 was the tops. that hurt.)

som farmer · May 31, 2021

l have done quite a bit of 'on farm' buying, over the years, always did it through auctioneers, do a deal, ring auctioneers, tell them, as they wouldn't know anything about it, job done, seller happy, auctioneer had a cut, we pay auctioneers, job done, more importantly, seller knew he would get paid..
Very different subject, just watched a fish and chip shop, that has used 3 tons of spuds, so far this bank holiday, l cant visualise 3 ton of chips !!!!!!!!!!!!!

betweenthelines · May 31, 2021

sodbuster said:
What the OP has failed to tell us is that the bull wasnt actually sold under the hammer. I was at the sale that day and have checked my catalogue. I have that bull down as a no sale at 2800. So a deal must of been struck in the pens afterwards. Is this still under society regulations?
I agree breeder is in the wrong. However........

Sold as seen?

Dry Rot · May 31, 2021

Do the auctioneers not publish conditions of sale? If they are not made available to the public, the professional institution needs to know about it. Having the rules in writing puts an end to many arguments.

gatepost · May 31, 2021

M-J-G said:
When someone sells what's classed as a breeding bull, it must be as described.

It's basic trade descriptions

quite right , If you sell an animal for breeding, then fundamentally that is what it should be able to do.

Bull warranty.. Or not.

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