Save Our Farms

yellowbelly · Jan 14, 2022

MrNoo said:
They can do what they want, gov dont want our produce, I dont wish to plant trees and re-wild, I also dont want to be working for peanuts for the rest of my life and I have options for solar.

....and to be fair, when solar is replaced by nuclear (or whatever science dictates is the next wonder fuel), a future government realises we can't eat trees, carbon credits are exposed for the massive scam they are it'll be far easier to clear a solar farm than a forest for your children/grandchildren to start producing food again.

grainboy · Jan 14, 2022

BRB John said:
I think it's authoritarian rather than a dictatorship....
And that's kinda the whole point of the government is to tell us what to do and what not to.
It's just where do you draw the line of going too far.

Wouldn’t want this government to tell me what to do, or not,
As they don’t adhere to anything they tell us,
Then selves,

steveR · Jan 14, 2022

Norfolk Hill Farmer said:
Thats like saying someone could own all our reservoirs we get our drinking water from ,and turn them into water parks. As all of us need to eat three times a day, I think the government should have a strategy to keep food consumed in this country, for the most part , produced in this country.

One upon a time, there was something called the "Balance of Payments figure" which was announced on a regular basis. Our Glorious Leader and the Conservative Party don't think this has any relevance to modern economics...

But surely UKplc is better off if we grow out own food here and not overseas... When there was an Empire, there was a proper trade which could justify food imports, but now?

grainboy · Jan 14, 2022

couple of points to ponder,

Why will there be a shortage, ?
From 1988 we had Set a Side, 20 % out of production, was there a shortage ?

Alternatively, put restrictions on Farm / land owners from cashing in on developing green field sites,

you can’t have it both ways, !!

Tarw Coch · Jan 14, 2022

steveR said:
One upon a time, there was something called the "Balance of Payments figure" which was announced on a regular basis. Our Glorious Leader and the Conservative Party don't think this has any relevance to modern economics...

But surely UKplc is better off if we grow out own food here and not overseas... When there was an Empire, there was a proper trade which could justify food imports, but now?

Perhaps you’re a little older than me if you remember talk of a balance of payments figure, being presumably a bit younger

I only remember talk of a balance of payments deficit, from memory it was talked of quite a bit on the news.
Can’t think that I’ve heard it mentioned for a long time now, presumably it’s that bad they dare not mention it.

colhonk · Jan 14, 2022

They stopped talking about the balance of payments after Blair got in charge, because it became so dire. Thats why we are in the sht now.

Clive · Jan 14, 2022

Bruce Almighty said:
Apologies for stating the obvious.

We are in a crazy situation where in my opinion, a campaign needs promoting to save/support farming in England.

Re-Wilding is throwing money at those that need it least.

Look at what's happened to @CopperBeech, a very good farmer who has been stitched up

Clueless idiots like Ed Sheeran thinking they can clear their conscience of their environmental damage by buying land and letting it go to wrack and ruin.

Where is the NFU when we need them most?

Should we be lobbying the Daily Telegraph & the Daily Mail to get the message to the general public?

At least The Times have printed some common sense.

The affect of this stupidity will mean food price inflation for the poor.

It is the duty of our nation's farmers to feed the nation, surely the lessons from 75 years ago have not been forgotten?

Rely on imports at your peril.

Let's hope that Boris's stupidity and lies over lock down parties bring him down, together with Princess Nut Nuts.

Is Rishi Sunak our saviour?

agree 100% except this bit ……..

“It is the duty of our nation's farmers to feed the nation, surely the lessons from 75 years ago have not been forgotten?”

that’s down to government - it’s our duty to run businesses that are sustainable both environmentally and importantly financially

icanshootwell · Jan 15, 2022

This is just a stab in the dark, but i would hazard a guess that most farms are in danger from family break-ups, inheritance tax and bad investment decisions.
On the flip side, we have clarksons farm and Harry's farm telling us the true profitability of most UK farms and are open with there true figures, a bad crop etc is the difference between profit and loss, both of which have an income stream outside of farming which helps i,m sure keeping the wheels turning.
My guess is, if farmers are willing to take a pay cut, they can save there farms, & go sparingly on new shiny metal, if you can,t take a pay cut,because you,re already paying yourself fu#k all, you are in the sh#t.

glasshouse · Jan 15, 2022

grainboy said:
Apologies
But
Why can anyone control or dictate what someone else wants to do with their property,
Fact of life,

Till the mob arrives

glasshouse · Jan 15, 2022

Clive said:
agree 100% except this bit ……..

“It is the duty of our nation's farmers to feed the nation, surely the lessons from 75 years ago have not been forgotten?”

that’s down to government - it’s our duty to run businesses that are sustainable both environmentally and importantly financially

Sometimes u have to ignore the govt and do whats right

unlacedgecko · Jan 15, 2022

Jackov Altraids said:
I agree except that it is clearly no longer our duty to feed the nation.
There has always been an unwritten understanding that farmers should be given some financial protection in the knowledge that they will never be able to profiteer in a time of shortage.
When there is a shortage, you should feel completely at ease to sell to whomever is the highest bidder as we've been robbed by competing with the lowest for decades.
Remove protection and support, do not expect any sense of duty.

Sounds like some made up rubbish to salve the conscience of subsidy claimants.

DrWazzock · Jan 15, 2022

The problem with proposed changes is it’s a double whammy.
They are not only taking BPS away from active farming but they are subsidising land use that will compete with active farming by forcing up prices of poorer / livestock farmland by making it attractive to forestry buyers.
In this way the changes will hit the lower margin livestock sectors harder.and further close off lower cost routes into farming for new entrants.
Watch all the poorer let grazing evaporate over the next few years, then a lot of arable on grade 3 FBT disappear into long term enviro schemes.
All all and good for landowners maybe, depending on strings attached, but it will be a terrible time for tenants.
Better way would have been to reduce BPS to zero over 5 years and leave it at that. All subsidy does is poison and distort markets, and devalue real enterprise.
If environmental goods and carbon capture are such good payers and so badly needed then why the heck do they need massive subsidy from day 1?
It’s such a mess now it’s beyond further comment really except to say we will be out of all state subsidies here once BPS have finished.

Hindsight · Jan 15, 2022

unlacedgecko said:
Sounds like some made up rubbish to salve the conscience of subsidy claimants.

Wheat Act 1932 and Introduction post war of Deficiency Payments 1954. A tacit acceptance that UK farmers and farming required some form of price protection to maintain continuity in face of world markets. Cheers.

https://bahs.org.uk/AGHR/ARTICLES/08n1a3.pdf

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/1956-08-02/debates/845aed62-ee64-48aa-ae4a-4c78a2cb0a84/CerealsDeficiencyPaymentsScheme

Hindsight · Jan 15, 2022

unlacedgecko said:
Sounds like some made up rubbish to salve the conscience of subsidy claimants.

The UK wheat Act 1932 came at same time as the First USA Farm Bill 1933 which introduced in the USA set-aside and payments to farmers. It is an historical debate how important to the UK winning WW2 was the support given to Agriculture through the 1930s depression retaining at least some home agricultural production. Interesting times again.

manhill · Jan 15, 2022

livestock 1 said:
It’s trading conditions that steer farmers in certain directions that government desires
Look back at farming through the years, drive for production then quotas followed by environmental schemes.
Governments would look unpopular dictating what can and can’t happen with other peoples property but they can manipulate conditions we trade in to force us to do what they want
They have managed it well in the past

And no gold plated pensions for us effectively civil servanrs.
Not a bad deal for Gov. UK!

livestock 1 · Jan 15, 2022

manhill said:
And no gold plated pensions for us effectively civil servanrs.
Not a bad deal for Gov. UK!

That’s another way to look at it

jellybean · Jan 15, 2022

Clive said:
agree 100% except this bit ……..

“It is the duty of our nation's farmers to feed the nation, surely the lessons from 75 years ago have not been forgotten?”

that’s down to government - it’s our duty to run businesses that are sustainable both environmentally and importantly financially

Yes, that was the one sentence that jumped out me as being completely wrong. When push comes to shove it is the responsibility of each individual to feed themselves. Obviously the way the modern world operates very few could actually do that but it is certainly not the responsibility of farmers.

Derrick Hughes · Jan 15, 2022

Who was first at the giving table when they asked you to block your drains , there will be plenty willing to sit at that table again

unlacedgecko · Jan 15, 2022

Hindsight said:
Wheat Act 1932 and Introduction post war of Deficiency Payments 1954. A tacit acceptance that UK farmers and farming required some form of price protection to maintain continuity in face of world markets. Cheers.

https://bahs.org.uk/AGHR/ARTICLES/08n1a3.pdf

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/1956-08-02/debates/845aed62-ee64-48aa-ae4a-4c78a2cb0a84/CerealsDeficiencyPaymentsScheme

The 1932 Wheat Act was nearly 100yrs (or 3 generations) ago.

Subs haven't been tied to production in over 20yrs (or nearly 1 generation).

There's an oft repeated criticism of the British armed forces that they constantly train to fight the previous war not the future one. What's the farming equivalent?

Jackov Altraids · Jan 15, 2022

unlacedgecko said:
Sounds like some made up rubbish to salve the conscience of subsidy claimants

You, and government should consider the true meaning of forcing British agriculture to compete on a world market while being severely disadvantaged by extra costs and little support.

It exports welfare and environmental issues
It further distorts our balance of payments
It will cause loss of critical mass and rural economies will suffer

but the point I was making is that while they are happy for farms to go out of business to cheap imports, as recent events have shown, at a time of shortage exports are stopped and the price of produce is kept down so there is only ever the downside of a free market.
Keeping a nation's agriculture financially sustainable is widely seen as being the first essential step before trying to make it environmentally sustainable.

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