Debt

[Clive]

Ok . Hill farms have no option than to farm sheep. They cant survive without financial assistance. Right or wrong that's,how it is . It dont make them good or bad farmers. If the price of wheat dropped back to £70 ton like it was not so long ago I'm sure a lot of good farmers might find it difficult.

Everyone has an option to do something else

If they can’t make it pay then don’t do it

If wheat was £70 / t. I wouldn’t grow any

Business is what this odd concept is called !

 

[Still Farming]

Ok . Hill farms have no option than to farm sheep. They cant survive without financial assistance. Right or wrong that's,how it is . It dont make them good or bad farmers. If the price of wheat dropped back to £70 ton like it was not so long ago I'm sure a lot of good farmers might find it difficult.

They farm wind turbines around here on mountains and rolling it in?

 

[Clive]

They farm wind turbines around here on mountains and rolling it in?

The ones that run a business do you mean, along with those that are onto tourism and many value adding other things that pay

Situation is a choice not an obligation or “luck” as some seem to think

 

[glensman]

Not that I want to pick sides here but the bigger businesses require bigger commitments, more organisation, less spare time, more time thinking. A local plant hire man asked me how much actual time was spent doing farming stuff including office work agent work dealing with people and generally trying to find the best way through things. Doesn’t leave much time for other things

And that's not even taking into account all the time spent on Tff!

 

[Still Farming]

The ones that run a business do you mean, along with those that are onto tourism and many value adding other things that pay

Situation is a choice not an obligation or “luck” as some seem to think

It was luck the wind companies chose their mountains I suppose.

 

[Highland Mule]

It’s not quite as straightforward as that, owner occupiers get bills that tenants don’t. Last year I put new windows in the house that would have amounted to about a years rent, and that was taking the cheapest option replacing sash windows with hinged windows albeit in the same style as the originals. To replace with upvc sash windows would have more than doubled the cost.
A mate of mine who’s a tennant had new oak windows a few years back in his listed farmhouse, he reckoned at the time it cost near enough 3 years rent, the house has also been rewired and re roofed in recent years, all paid for by the landlord.

Didn’t you mention a while back that the estate had put all new buildings on your farm albeit quite a number of years back.

I think I may allready have said, the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.

Absolutely right - plenty farms out there to buy if tenants think it's so much easier than renting. Reality is that (on a year by year operating capital basis) renting is usually cheaper per hectare than owning land - the price of land being based on a combination of expected future increasing value (capital appreciation), taxation advantages and only finally income potential.

 

[Clive]

It was luck the wind companies chose their mountains I suppose.

Probably not - same with development for housing etc - those that get it usually put themselves in a position get it, buy the right bits of land strategically and invest (Risk) in promotion or agents etc

Anyone who think planners etc just stick a pin in a map and someone gets lucky like a lotto winner has no idea what’s really involved

 

[Still Farming]

Probably not - same with development for housing etc - those that get it usually put themselves in a position get it, buy the right bits of land strategically and invest in promotion or agents etc

Anyone who think planners etc just stick a pin in a map and someone gets lucky like a lotto winner has no idea what’s really involved

Well I don't know.
Dead certain areas that you would think would gain development in LDP etc have no houses and other areas middle of previously turned down sites not in any LDP have had planning ?
So is Lucky as all hierarchy rules and formulas that prevailed against failed ?

 

[Clive]

Well I don't know.
Dead certain areas that you would think would gain development in LDP etc have no houses and other areas middle of previously turned down sites not in any LDP have had planning ?
So is Lucky as all hierarchy rules and formulas that prevailed against failed ?

The areas that have gained permission will have had the time, money and skill investment in then that made it happen

It’s certainly not luck

 

[lloyd]

The areas that have gained permission will have had the time, money and skill investment in then that made it happen

It’s certainly not luck

You missed out political motivation and corruption

 

[DRC]

It’s not quite as straightforward as that, owner occupiers get bills that tenants don’t. Last year I put new windows in the house that would have amounted to about a years rent, and that was taking the cheapest option replacing sash windows with hinged windows albeit in the same style as the originals. To replace with upvc sash windows would have more than doubled the cost.
A mate of mine who’s a tennant had new oak windows a few years back in his listed farmhouse, he reckoned at the time it cost near enough 3 years rent, the house has also been rewired and re roofed in recent years, all paid for by the landlord.

Didn’t you mention a while back that the estate had put all new buildings on your farm albeit quite a number of years back.

I think I may allready have said, the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.

They did,and a new house 22 years ago , but that’s because they sold the old village site for development, so tenants don’t get the pay day that some owner occupiers do, many seem to convert old barns etc. I’m on a full repairing btw.

 

[Still Farming]

You missed out political motivation and corruption

Alleged brown LUCK envelopes is it?

 

[Clive]

You missed out political motivation and corruption

Even that’s isn’t “luck” ! Someone makes things happen

 

[DRC]

Not all tenants are that lucky, my LL passed all the repairs to me apart from the Roof, Walls and Electrics as part of the tenancy

When I became tenant as part of the move, I had to agree to go onto full repairing .

 

[lloyd]

Even that’s isn’t “luck” ! Someone makes things happen

Or stops things happening!

 

[Still Farming]

This just shows lots are well outside the control of farmers.

 

[Daniel]

And my size and structure just fell out of the sky did it ? I just “got lucky ?

I grew up on a small, part owned part tenanted dairy farm with a load of debt and a big overdraft that wasn’t making a lot of money at all and would probably be long gone if I had just carried on “as was”

Where it is today is is down to work, skill, sacrifice and risk taking by me and my father over the following 25years. At times we have taken on huge debt (risk) to achieve that

It’s not luck !


Maybe I should have remained running that small diary farm and spent my days moaning about how “lucky” others are ?

Just a thought though, has any of that ‘luck’ involved selling land for building? Given that you are farming around an urban fringe?

 

[Clive]

Just a thought though, has any of that ‘luck’ involved selling land for building? Given that you are farming around an urban fringe?

If it was the case it wouldn’t be luck, it would have involved putting yourself in the right position at the right time with the right people etc

We sold our old farm yard for a small development but to spend it all building an new farm yard one fit for purpose

I don’t think that’s luck, it’s business, something we set out to do and made happen

 

[ajd132]

If my parents hadn’t borrowed significant money and risk 30 years ago we would be on a very small arable farm of 200 acres with my grandparents and aunties cousins etcetc. Instead we have 400 acres of our own land which is nearly paid for and another 3000 acres of contract farming. Dad has only ever inherited 75 acres. It’s all come from arable farming. We have a profitable business with lots of potential going foward. My turn to borrow money now and add to all my parents hard work over the years.
Some of the attitudes on this thread are pathetic. Make you’re own luck and crack on.

 

[ajd132]

A couple of posts earlier, you came out with that old chestnut " you make your own luck ".

Anyhoo, I suspect most of us who have " got somewhere " have really only done it by buying and selling at the right time. Probably by taking advantage of others misfortune. I see agriculture these days as a mad scramble to outdo others. Screwing each other over the price of fodder / land rents etc, whilst pissing about receiving 1970's prices in a giant race to the bottom. LL vs tenant , arable vs lifestock, big vs small. If this forum resembles UK agriculture in general, I'm embarrassed to be part of it.
fudge all seems to happen to sort the root cause of the problem, only smartarses chip in with " why should the public pay more for food ? ", " why should the industry be subsidised ?" , If you can't make money with wheat at £150 / ton, there must be something wrong ".
Yeah, we're all making money at £150 /ton, but with only 100 acres that's only £15k / year. 200 acres is reaching average wage level at £30k, but leaves nothing to invest. So 500 acres is needed for a comfortable living. A £5 million investment just to make a comfortable living. What a joke.

I’m surprised you can walk with a chip that size on you’re shoulder.