Guns on farms

[thesilentone]

I for one would not support a more extensive gun regime in the UK, the USA is a fine example of what can happen when the power of reason and life preservation go's out of the window.

I have naively been an anti-gun supporter, and seen the Yank system as a great example of how to get it wrong. Then Trump came along, initially a supporter of his straight talking and ability to get things done, it appears he is so far to the right it's scary.

If I lived in America, I would be gunned up, ready to protect myself and family if required against (and this is the really scary part) an oppressive Government supported by a gun toting gang called the Police.

We visited the USA several times when the children were small, I would never want to return now, I see it is an unfriendly, aggressive Country.

There will always be racism, and bullying and prejudice and inequality, it's the way we are made. The British should be very proud of our progress and how we have accepted different races and cultures, and still do today. Of course things could be better, and they will be as they improve all the time.

The basics of racism in the UK are simple, however we cloud them with any and every issue we can think of that deflects blame.

It is also mainly a London problem with many Boroughs having an overwhelming majority of BAME. Single parent families, drugs, gangs, education, poor housing and low expectations. Despite the Councils and Government and Charities pouring millions in year in year out, the results are not good enough.

The gangs are very quick to put an arm around the young coming up, and buy them gifts and phones and make them feel they are protected and one of them, part of the team. Everything a young person is yearning for, safety, security, excitement and a feeling of being.

Community Groups, Councils and Charities need to up their game, they are not delivering.

In the UK, the political agenda for one side is driven by the NHS and under privileged, it makes you wonder what they would do without them..............

 

[toquark]

More guns definitely aren't the answer, and I say that as a gun owner. De-centralised police forces with motivated and well trained officers would be a start. In Scotland we lost that when the regional forces were amalgamated in 2013 with most policy now coming from the urban central belt. This simply isn't fit for purpose in a country where the majority of the counties are overwhelmingly rural.

People just need to be confident that when they report a crime something meaningful is going to be done about it. The OK corrall option is neither desirable, effective or realistic.

I did laugh at the Highland Show when a few years back I saw a beaming chief constable aboard a Police Scotland tractor trumping it as their response to the rise in rural crime. I pictured the PR brain storming session:
"We're seeing a worrying rise in rural crime, how do we assuage the teuchter's concerns?"
"Why don't we buy a tractor to show we take rural crime seriously and parade it at the yokel's annual shindig?"
"Yes. That should do the trick"

 

[unlacedgecko]

I for one would not support a more extensive gun regime in the UK, the USA is a fine example of what can happen when the power of reason and life preservation go's out of the window.

I have naively been an anti-gun supporter, and seen the Yank system as a great example of how to get it wrong. Then Trump came along, initially a supporter of his straight talking and ability to get things done, it appears he is so far to the right it's scary.

If I lived in America, I would be gunned up, ready to protect myself and family if required against (and this is the really scary part) an oppressive Government supported by a gun toting gang called the Police.

We visited the USA several times when the children were small, I would never want to return now, I see it is an unfriendly, aggressive Country.

There will always be racism, and bullying and prejudice and inequality, it's the way we are made. The British should be very proud of our progress and how we have accepted different races and cultures, and still do today. Of course things could be better, and they will be as they improve all the time.

The basics of racism in the UK are simple, however we cloud them with any and every issue we can think of that deflects blame.

It is also mainly a London problem with many Boroughs having an overwhelming majority of BAME. Single parent families, drugs, gangs, education, poor housing and low expectations. Despite the Councils and Government and Charities pouring millions in year in year out, the results are not good enough.

The gangs are very quick to put an arm around the young coming up, and buy them gifts and phones and make them feel they are protected and one of them, part of the team. Everything a young person is yearning for, safety, security, excitement and a feeling of being.

Community Groups, Councils and Charities need to up their game, they are not delivering.

In the UK, the political agenda for one side is driven by the NHS and under privileged, it makes you wonder what they would do without them..............

Why is it the UK tax payers responsibility to sort out the dross of the 3rd world which have some how blown into London?

White British people make up 44% of the population of London.

 

[Landrover]

How would you reform the gun laws here?

I don't think the country would need a drastic rise in gun ownership- the average Brit can't drive a car properly or be trusted to handle table cutlery safely. You want a couple of million glocks on the streets? Birmingham would rival Basra for violence in about 6 months I reckon.

Even the slightest road rage incident would turn into a murder. You get home from work and find the wife being boffed by a neighbour- boom boom- boom boom, double taps to the sternum of both. We don't have the prison space.

Furthermore, the idea that Americans are some how safer is a myth- any reputable criminal is surely able to obtain a weapon as easy as any home owner. Therefore he will be more inclined to commit burglary whilst being tooled up himself. If he believes the home owner is more likely to shoot in self-defence he is probably going to be more inclined to shoot first as well. Do you want to be a victim of robbery or a murder?

A while ago I was asked to fill a questionnaire in about gun licencing and gun ownership in this country, having been a shotgun and firearm owner for over 25years I have quite strong views that the licences are too easy to get and more checks need done before anyone is allowed a gun of any type, for example there is a guy that comes beating here has 12 shotguns and 3 rifles lives in the middle of Gateshead and the only shooting he does is when he comes on the keepers day here, why does he need so many guns ? Should there not be checks for that ! There are 2 many legally held firearms in this country before we even start on illegal ones ! My suggestions were : before the granting of a certificate the applicant must go on a safety course
They must be a member of a gun club/ have access to land to shoot on that is reviewed on a regular basis
A maximum number of firearms to be held without good reason to have them
Handguns to be able to be held legally for target shooting again

I know that my views seem strong but it would stop alot of people who have guns but shouldn't having them

 

[ollie989898]

A while ago I was asked to fill a questionnaire in about gun licencing and gun ownership in this country, having been a shotgun and firearm owner for over 25years I have quite strong views that the licences are too easy to get and more checks need done before anyone is allowed a gun of any type, for example there is a guy that comes beating here has 12 shotguns and 3 rifles lives in the middle of Gateshead and the only shooting he does is when he comes on the keepers day here, why does he need so many guns ? Should there not be checks for that ! There are 2 many legally held firearms in this country before we even start on illegal ones ! My suggestions were : before the granting of a certificate the applicant must go on a safety course
They must be a member of a gun club/ have access to land to shoot on that is reviewed on a regular basis
A maximum number of firearms to be held without good reason to have them
Handguns to be able to be held legally for target shooting again

I know that my views seem strong but it would stop alot of people who have guns but shouldn't having them

Seems pragmatic enough.

I am not sure there should be a return of handguns though- you have to consider the risk:benefit to society.

The risk is very high- pistols allow concealment and a lot of rounds to be carried and fired in short order. What benefit do they give to society? The ability to plink at a range? That's about it.

 

[Landrover]

Seems pragmatic enough.

I am not sure there should be a return of handguns though- you have to consider the risk:benefit to society.

The risk is very high- pistols allow concealment and a lot of rounds to be carried and fired in short order. What benefit do they give to society? The ability to plink at a range? That's about it.

I have mixed feelings over handguns but I used to target shoot which I enjoyed, its a purely selfish thing really !

 

[Dry Rot]

More guns definitely aren't the answer, and I say that as a gun owner. De-centralised police forces with motivated and well trained officers would be a start. In Scotland we lost that when the regional forces were amalgamated in 2013 with most policy now coming from the urban central belt. This simply isn't fit for purpose in a country where the majority of the counties are overwhelmingly rural.

People just need to be confident that when they report a crime something meaningful is going to be done about it. The OK corrall option is neither desirable, effective or realistic.

I did laugh at the Highland Show when a few years back I saw a beaming chief constable aboard a Police Scotland tractor trumping it as their response to the rise in rural crime. I pictured the PR brain storming session:
"We're seeing a worrying rise in rural crime, how do we assuage the teuchter's concerns?"
"Why don't we buy a tractor to show we take rural crime seriously and parade it at the yokel's annual shindig?"
"Yes. That should do the trick"

I could tell you a thing or two about Police Scotland. When it was announced that the new police chief contsable was from Norfolk, I said to myself, "I wonder how long he will last!" Next thing, he is kicked out for "bullying" which is exactly what Police Scotland needs.

Just to go over it again in case they've missed it. When my guns were seized I was asked to sign a piece of paper with the explanation, "This is just a receipt to say we have taken the guns. We will be taking it away with us". Why would they take the receipt away with them? It was headed "Voluntary Surrender of Firearms for Destruction". The Official Complaints body dismissed this as "a mistake with the paperwork'.

My other three official complaints were all upheld. BASC said they wouldn't take any notice of a complaint anyway which is probably true and why they cannot learn.

My guns were returned with an apology after a year. I have had an open FAC all my life and have never been in trouble, let alone charged with any offence. The police nade mistakes at every step of the way with the culmination of issuing the wrong paper work for the return of my guns and handing them back to me when I was not authorised to possess them because my certificates had expired. One police sergeant stated that the tax payer does not pay the police, their wages are paid by the government, another sergeant did not understand the function of a receipt nor seem to know what one was. And they expect us to trust them. Buying a tractor would be the least of their faults.

 

[Dry Rot]

Two things I take a very wide berth of when I'm out and about: coppers with dogs and coppers with guns.

If you are confronted by a police dog, all you need is a tennis ball!

 

[thesilentone]

A while ago I was asked to fill a questionnaire in about gun licencing and gun ownership in this country, having been a shotgun and firearm owner for over 25years I have quite strong views that the licences are too easy to get and more checks need done before anyone is allowed a gun of any type, for example there is a guy that comes beating here has 12 shotguns and 3 rifles lives in the middle of Gateshead and the only shooting he does is when he comes on the keepers day here, why does he need so many guns ? Should there not be checks for that ! There are 2 many legally held firearms in this country before we even start on illegal ones ! My suggestions were : before the granting of a certificate the applicant must go on a safety course
They must be a member of a gun club/ have access to land to shoot on that is reviewed on a regular basis
A maximum number of firearms to be held without good reason to have them
Handguns to be able to be held legally for target shooting again

I know that my views seem strong but it would stop alot of people who have guns but shouldn't having them

After Dunblane there was a tightening up of gun ownership law, especially Firearms. This saw decent law abiding people surrendering guns to be destroyed.

This had a zero effect on the gun killing stats in the UK (which were low anyway), so was a waste of time.

However today, being a fit and stable person to own a gun is part of the vetting, any kind of criminal or mental health record and you can virtually forget it.

It's not the good guys that kill people, it's the person who's finger is on the trigger.

Manchester is the gun killing capital of the UK, I'll bet none are permit holders.

 

[toquark]

Buying a tractor would be the least of their faults.

Oh I know, I need no convincing of Police Scotland's ineptitude. I think though that the police service are emblematic of most civil service departments today; miserable, grey, sclerotic monoliths which few on the inside have the motivation or the back bone to reform. Hate to bring up the T-word but it takes a Thatcher-type character to go through these institutions. I just can't see that happening in today's society. Gove tried with education, Patel's having a go at the home office but jeez there's a lot of work to do, and there is nothing encouraging happening north of the border, in fact quite the opposite.

In my darker moments, I wonder whether our political system (representative democracy) is conducive to facilitating such change in a world led by social media mob-rule. I worry it may take something awful to force it.

 

[Funny Farmer]

nope. The courts and judicial system had put any punishment after the case. Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. The police should not have the power to inflict physical punishment to anyone. Once he was incapacitated (and he was at the start of the video), the dog was redundant and should have been removed.

This thread is basically about summary execution of trespassers

 

[Lowland1]

My experience of guns in Kenya is not a good one. I do not own one nor do i want to. Ownership of a gun in a society that is largely unarmed makes you a target. I know several people who have been robbed for their guns in a least two cases in ended very badly. From my experience those people who own guns for their own protection tend to be very frightened individuals and as such are probably not safe to own guns in the first place. Here we live in a society where money talks so you can shoot first and pay later and I know people who have. If everybody can get a gun then fine you have an even playing field and it turns into America if not then it's best the criminals and the police have guns and the rest of us unless we need one for work etc are best unarmed. I say this as someone who has been robbed at gunpoint and hit with the gun. I have also found my next door neighbour shot dead and had an ex employee shot both of these people were armed and having a count up reckon I know of at least ten people who have been shot and killed most of these had guns of some sort. A gun is great if the other person doesn't have one. The picture I put up was not taken in Kenya.

 

[Mickeydredd]

However today, being a fit and stable person to own a gun is part of the vetting, any kind of criminal or mental health record and you can virtually forget it.

Which is why probably a large number of gun owners with treatable mental health issues do not seek medical help for it and are therefore a potential threat to themselves and others.

 

[dudders]

Like one of these.View attachment 889220

I'd like one too, but a bit too young for me to handle.

 

[dudders]

Two things I take a very wide berth of when I'm out and about: coppers with dogs and coppers with guns.

And, for the same reason, coppers on motorbikes or wearing sunglasses. All of them swagger merchants.

 

[Lowland1]

I'd like one too, but a bit too young for me to handle.

That's my daughter so I hope you mean the gun.

 

[manhill]

DeWalt exploding tool case, but if you've got a memory like mine it's not such a good idea!

 

[steveR]

A while ago I was asked to fill a questionnaire in about gun licencing and gun ownership in this country, having been a shotgun and firearm owner for over 25years I have quite strong views that the licences are too easy to get and more checks need done before anyone is allowed a gun of any type.....

I know that my views seem strong but it would stop alot of people who have guns but shouldn't having them

I doubt it, the criminals who want a firearm and have access to one, will be MOST unlikely to be a licence holder I would suggest.

2 of my children are shotgun holders, my son also has a rifle ticket, as do I. The FO was pretty tough on my daughter when he did the initial interview fro a shotgun, but she did agree after a long break, it was fair. My Son is in an Army Ossifer, and the scrutiny was a fraction, and he got both tickets same day. My feeling is that the FO was taking a sensible and balanced approach to his assessment of both need, experience and likely usage. The interview was a chat... with intent, giving the FO a real chance to get a feel of what the situation is in the Holders house and environment.

My wife also has a ticket and felt she was picked on as a woman when she had the vist for the next Renewal! She got her ticket.

I suspect the FO has us down as OK Which may help when my daughter goes for a deer rifle...!!!

 

[unlacedgecko]

I doubt it, the criminals who want a firearm and have access to one, will be MOST unlikely to be a licence holder I would suggest.

2 of my children are shotgun holders, my son also has a rifle ticket, as do I. The FO was pretty tough on my daughter when he did the initial interview fro a shotgun, but she did agree after a long break, it was fair. My Son is in an Army Ossifer, and the scrutiny was a fraction, and he got both tickets same day. My feeling is that the FO was taking a sensible and balanced approach to his assessment of both need, experience and likely usage. The interview was a chat... with intent, giving the FO a real chance to get a feel of what the situation is in the Holders house and environment.

My wife also has a ticket and felt she was picked on as a woman when she had the vist for the next Renewal! She got her ticket.

I suspect the FO has us down as OK Which may help when my daughter goes for a deer rifle...!!!

I place a very large bet that it's possible for one to get their hands on an unlicensed firearm and ammunition within 24hrs in any major British city.

 

[steveR]

I place a very large bet that it's possible for one to get their hands on an unlicensed firearm and ammunition within 24hrs in any major British city.

Yerp.... for a price.