How can anybody be bothered with charolais?

[Kiwi Pete]

I don’t really get this ,as my weaning weights and per animal weights increase my profitability has increased,weight always pays but that is just my experience.

Smaller cattle just allow for finer "tuning" when it comes to adjusting stocking rate which allows more profit/acre to be obtained

but

if the stocking rate per acre isn't adjusted upward to compensate then that doesn't happen, as there are no more calves per acre to be sold.

What I meant was that by selecting for bigger and bigger cattle, less cows per acre means less calves per acre 'generally' unless more multiple births result.
In a perfect world it wouldn't matter, but in a world where animals die it can, an extra calf or ten allows for losses, which affects how much we spend on insurances

 

[Top Tip.]

Smaller cattle just allow for finer "tuning" when it comes to adjusting stocking rate which allows more profit/acre to be obtained

but

if the stocking rate per acre isn't adjusted upward to compensate then that doesn't happen, as there are no more calves per acre to be sold.

What I meant was that by selecting for bigger and bigger cattle, less cows per acre means less calves per acre 'generally' unless more multiple births result

I think you can maximise your production by choosing a small to medium sized cow and then using a Charollais bull on these cows,really does maximise your production per ha if that is the way you want to measure your productivity.

 

[Wolds Beef]

@Doc How are those Lincoln x cattle doing? Any complaints? Will you be down for the sale on 21st March as there is going to be plenty of choice. See on the Livestock for sale thread.
WB

 

[Doc]

No complaints David. Heifers retained are excellent and doing well. Due to calve in May. I’ve had no bother with them and would happily recommend LR sire, particularly over dairyxbritish blue cows to put the beef back in and as a low cost, maternal cow.
Ill be looking for a bull soon. ?

 

[Durris Dave]

excellent cattle have you ever tried simmental cows? out of interest do you creep these calves hard and get them away store at a year old?

Yes we used to have Heinz 57 with sims black lims and bb cows. They all have a place but we were having too many calving problems and cows not lasting long enough. By going down the saler road we are averaging nearly another 2 calves from our cows and I don’t think we’re sacrificing quality. I really like the sims but just weren’t lasting long enough between feet and udders. In an ideal world my cows would be salers bred from sim cows. I have 25 pedigrees and sell a lot of bulls to farmers with sim cows and the heifers of them are beautiful. Creeps go out late July - mid August those steers will of had around 5 kg of conc a day from weaning to sale at 10-11 months. We could prob push them harder as 450 plus ones won’t be grazed they’ll just be kept going and killed late July/August

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I think you can maximise your production by choosing a small to medium sized cow and then using a Charollais bull on these cows,really does maximise your production per ha if that is the way you want to measure your productivity.

Yes.
I don't worry about that production bit as much as profit per hectare, because my little hobby-mob of cows has to be able to pay its way against bull beef, dairy grazing, and a heap of other things I can do with the land they graze... even with a tiny (under 450kg LWT) cow I'd struggle to arrive at a competitive return with a single calf per cow against bull beef, or hogg grazing on a per ha, or per kgDM basis.

However with those 420kg mums weaning 2x 250kg calves it's a better equation, a far better equation. It's surprising just how close all these ventures can be on a profit/hectare basis, the only real "standout operation" is dairy B&B

 

[BELOWAVERAGE]

Yes.
I don't worry about that production bit as much as profit per hectare, because my little hobby-mob of cows has to be able to pay its way against bull beef, dairy grazing, and a heap of other things I can do with the land they graze... even with a tiny (under 450kg LWT) cow I'd struggle to arrive at a competitive return with a single calf per cow against bull beef, or hogg grazing on a per ha, or per kgDM basis.

However with those 420kg mums weaning 2x 250kg calves it's a better equation, a far better equation. It's surprising just how close all these ventures can be on a profit/hectare basis, the only real "standout operation" is dairy B&B

Its not quite as simple as selling two calves instead of one though is it, firstly you've more labour fostering on, then you've the disease aspect of buying in calves and associated vet costs, then you've 20% bad doers as they get no milk, then you've a lot lower stocking rate as you can't push double sucklers like you can single sucklers, I've done it with good milky cows, I wouldn't relish the idea with smaller cows with less milking ability.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Got to be careful with char bull calve registrations now, they will end up over weight while not being old enough to be allowed to be slaughtered. Best to reg them at there true age, give or take a week

You're not suggesting some of these amazing growthy cattle are actually older than the passport says?????

 

[digger64]

I think you can maximise your production by choosing a small to medium sized cow and then using a Charollais bull on these cows,really does maximise your production per ha if that is the way you want to measure your productivity.

So all we need is a low birth weight / high growth rate calf with an off white or golden coat then ?

 

[top char]

40 in pen 450kg average 10-11mnth ??

Great show of calves Dave! ?

 

[Wolds Beef]

@Doc Did you finish the steers? If so how did they do? If some one else finished them could they tell us how they did and if they were happy with them! Hopefully will find out today what is happening about the Newark Sale. Commercial chaps like yourself could do worse than have a look at the sale as ther is a wide choice of Bulls to suit people. Lincoln's are vastly underrated and would suite most systems producing docile, easy feeding, easy calving calving cows as you well know.
WB

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Its not quite as simple as selling two calves instead of one though is it, firstly you've more labour fostering on, then you've the disease aspect of buying in calves and associated vet costs, then you've 20% bad doers as they get no milk, then you've a lot lower stocking rate as you can't push double sucklers like you can single sucklers, I've done it with good milky cows, I wouldn't relish the idea with smaller cows with less milking ability.

Yes, it is that simple.
I've weaned 10 - 12 calves off ex-dairy cows per lactation, so two drinking off a 2 year-old dairy cross hardly seems strenuous or labour-intensive to me.
Compared to turning a solar-energy business into a fossil-energy business, anyway.

Maybe I'm just doing it wrong ?‍

 

[Bossfarmer]

Yes we used to have Heinz 57 with sims black lims and bb cows. They all have a place but we were having too many calving problems and cows not lasting long enough. By going down the saler road we are averaging nearly another 2 calves from our cows and I don’t think we’re sacrificing quality. I really like the sims but just weren’t lasting long enough between feet and udders. In an ideal world my cows would be salers bred from sim cows. I have 25 pedigrees and sell a lot of bulls to farmers with sim cows and the heifers of them are beautiful. Creeps go out late July - mid August those steers will of had around 5 kg of conc a day from weaning to sale at 10-11 months. We could prob push them harder as 450 plus ones won’t be grazed they’ll just be kept going and killed late July/August

i currently put a lim bull to my sim heifers to get slightly smaller calves than the charolais would a saler be suitable for this job? are you feeding 5kg of straight barley or is there protein mixed in with that? thanks

 

[BELOWAVERAGE]

Yes, it is that simple.
I've weaned 10 - 12 calves off ex-dairy cows per lactation, so two drinking off a 2 year-old dairy cross hardly seems strenuous or labour-intensive to me.
Compared to turning a solar-energy business into a fossil-energy business, anyway.

Maybe I'm just doing it wrong ?‍

Its not too difficult to rear a dozen on a dairy cow swopping bunches every couple of months, I've just read your post again, and as you say its a hobby herd, on a commercial scale with numbers it might look different, I thought you were comparing it against single sucklers, too which I forgot to add the cost of another calf, you'd also need a very tight calving pattern, as with double suckling the older calves in a bunch will make sure the younger one don't see the teat.

 

[Wolds Beef]

@Bossfarmer Why not try a Lincoln Red? You do not have to look far for inspiration. There is Andrew Mylius in Fife and the Buchan's at Ellon. Both have cracking Herd's of Lincoln Red cattle and on the 21st of this month will have animals at the Breed society sale which has been moved to Louth in Lincolnshire because of problems with Newark Market. You can find the catalogue in the Livestock for sale section or at the Lincoln Red Website and Facebook page. The Lincoln's were actually used to resurrect the Salers breed after the War (So I understand). They are also noted for there Docility.
WB

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Its not too difficult to rear a dozen on a dairy cow swopping bunches every couple of months, I've just read your post again, and as you say its a hobby herd, on a commercial scale with numbers it might look different, I thought you were comparing it against single sucklers, too which I forgot to add the cost of another calf, you'd also need a very tight calving pattern, as with double suckling the older calves in a bunch will make sure the younger one don't see the teat.

Rough figures from when I did it last time
Ten cull dairy cows $4500
110 beef x calves $7500
Grazing $8500
Cartage $1000

Sell cows as fat culls $6000
Sell calves store $72000 after losses and commission

Can you tell me again how single sucklers are naturally more profitable, I missed it?

 

[Durris Dave]

@Bossfarmer Why not try a Lincoln Red? You do not have to look far for inspiration. There is Andrew Mylius in Fife and the Buchan's at Ellon. Both have cracking Herd's of Lincoln Red cattle and on the 21st of this month will have animals at the Breed society sale which has been moved to Louth in Lincolnshire because of problems with Newark Market. You can find the catalogue in the Livestock for sale section or at the Lincoln Red Website and Facebook page. The Lincoln's were actually used to resurrect the Salers breed after the War (So I understand). They are also noted for there Docility.
WB

 

[Durris Dave]

How did the Lincoln’s resurrect the saler breed I’ve never heard this ? They didn’t come into the country till 1984 so I’m presuming they must of exported them to the mountain ranges in Saler France to help resurrect there breed ??

 

[Durris Dave]

i currently put a lim bull to my sim heifers to get slightly smaller calves than the charolais would a saler be suitable for this job? are you feeding 5kg of straight barley or is there protein mixed in with that? thanks

Yes for sure the saler has a gestation nearly ten days shorter than Charolais. I’ve currently 70 calving down at two nearly half way through and not had my hand in a heifer yet.
We start creep at 1:1:1 barley sugar beet dark grains then at weaning slowly move over to 60% barley 20% sb 20% dark grains ??

 

[clod hopper]

Yes for sure the saler has a gestation nearly ten days shorter than Charolais. I’ve currently 70 calving down at two nearly half way through and not had my hand in a heifer yet.
We start creep at 1:1:1 barley sugar beet dark grains then at weaning slowly move over to 60% barley 20% sb 20% dark grains ??

What are dark grains please?