How can anybody be bothered with charolais?

[Durris Dave]

What are dark grains please?

Protein source which is a byproduct from the distillery industry usually range from 23-28% protein depending on the product. Good ones are very palatable like them for young stock

 

[clod hopper]

Protein source which is a byproduct from the distillery industry usually range from 23-28% protein depending on the product. Good ones are very palatable like them for young stock

Brewers grains i know of are wet. So these dark grains are the same but dry?

 

[Wolds Beef]

@Durris Dave It is only what I have been told! I do not know how true it is, I guess DNA would tell the truth! Lincoln's were moved all over the world at one time, Brazil and Argentina being 2 countries that bought into the breed. How far away from the Buchan family are you? Another estate your way that is investing in Lincoln Red on an Organic System is Balcaskie. (I hope I have spelt that right)
That is probably why the Salers feed easily!!
WB

 

[Sharpy]

Rough figures from when I did it last time
Ten cull dairy cows $4500
110 beef x calves $7500
Grazing $8500
Cartage $1000

Sell cows as fat culls $6000
Sell calves store $72000 after losses and commission

Can you tell me again how single sucklers are naturally more profitable, I missed it?

What weight were your stores, and is there a big difference between bull/bullock and heifer prices?

 

[pgk]

I know I was thinking that myself, it seems to be interperated differently in different parts of the country.

My BIL calls me the fenian! Now he has had his DNA profile done and identified as carry 23% of alleles commonly found in Ireland I may take to calling him 23% fenian or something along those lines.

 

[BELOWAVERAGE]

Rough figures from when I did it last time
Ten cull dairy cows $4500
110 beef x calves $7500
Grazing $8500
Cartage $1000

Sell cows as fat culls $6000
Sell calves store $72000 after losses and commission

Can you tell me again how single sucklers are naturally more profitable, I missed it?

Make your mind up what your discussing, I thought it was double sucklers selling two 250kg poorer bred things against a good single suckled Charolais.
On those figures you've just posted, your cull cows have increased in value, they won't do that while rearing those calves, and your calves have increased in value 10 fold how long did you keep each batch to arrive at that value ?, what acreage and time scale are we talking for each cow and her 11 calves ? just curious as those figures seem very good, also was there no labour involved as surely that has a value ?

 

[shumungus]

My BIL calls me the fenian! Now he has had his DNA profile done and identified as carry 23% of alleles commonly found in Ireland I may take to calling him 23% fenian or something along those lines.

A quick heads up to the main landers reading this thread. Don't go bandying the 'f' word about to anyone from this side of the sea till your sure what way the ground lies or it could all go downhill real quick. In fact you would be better not use it at all.

 

[Sharpy]

A quick heads up to the main landers reading this thread. Don't go bandying the 'f' word about to anyone from this side of the sea till your sure what way the ground lies or it could all go downhill real quick. In fact you would be better not use it at all.

And by downhill its quite possible that it involves a rush visit to A and E or worse.

 

[Woolless]

A quick heads up to the main landers reading this thread. Don't go bandying the 'f' word about to anyone from this side of the sea till your sure what way the ground lies or it could all go downhill real quick. In fact you would be better not use it at all.

And by downhill its quite possible that it involves a rush visit to A and E or worse.

And that would also go for Scots as well, particularly those from Glasgow and surrounding areas. I believe that Rangers were fined in the past for their fans using that word in their terrace songs.

 

[pgk]

A quick heads up to the main landers reading this thread. Don't go bandying the 'f' word about to anyone from this side of the sea till your sure what way the ground lies or it could all go downhill real quick. In fact you would be better not use it at all.

Problem is BIL went to public school and not yet aware 26 counties became the free state in 1922! Still i enjoy waving my Irish passport at him whilst he suffers his new less beneficial blue one.

 

[shumungus]

And that would also go for Scots as well, particularly those from Glasgow and surrounding areas. I believe that Rangers were fined in the past for their fans using that word in their terrace songs.

I think its a word best left in the past, where all that type of stuff belongs.

 

[Sharpy]

And that would also go for Scots as well, particularly those from Glasgow and surrounding areas. I believe that Rangers were fined in the past for their fans using that word in their terrace songs.

If you were to call certain sectors of the west of Scotland population the f word it could be one of the most effective ways of committing suicide, but not the least painful. I am not kidding, this is an area where green traffic lights get smashed if Celtic win. Deep rooted bigotry still survives here.
On the upside racism is not a big white issue here.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Make your mind up what your discussing, I thought it was double sucklers selling two 250kg poorer bred things against a good single suckled Charolais.
On those figures you've just posted, your cull cows have increased in value, they won't do that while rearing those calves, and your calves have increased in value 10 fold how long did you keep each batch to arrive at that value ?, what acreage and time scale are we talking for each cow and her 11 calves ? just curious as those figures seem very good, also was there no labour involved as surely that has a value ?

Do you want to discuss it?
By your language I'm interpreting that you don't.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

What weight were your stores, and is there a big difference between bull/bullock and heifer prices?

240kg, on average. $3/kg.

 

[Sharpy]

240kg, on average. $3/kg.

Thanks for that, how are fat/killing cattle graded in NZ? Is it $ per kg and fat cover (like the USA) or is it different $ per kg depending on conformation and fat cover (like the UK)

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Thanks for that, how are fat/killing cattle graded in NZ? Is it $ per kg and fat cover (like the USA) or is it different $ per kg depending on conformation and fat cover (like the UK)

Liveweight (hot carcass) and eating quality, plus graded on muscle/fat content.

Most grass-finished beef will meet P2 (or M2 bull) grades.

edit, just reread your post, "generally" P (heifer/steer) pays better/kg than bull/cow (M).
This season (swine flu) has meant record price for bull, the first 2 batches away paid better per kilo than P2 beef would have. $6.10kg and I budget on $4/kg for bull.
Now with covid 19 putting the brakes on Chinese trade, that premium has disappeared so a waiting game has begun

 

[M-J-G]

Yes we used to have Heinz 57 with sims black lims and bb cows. They all have a place but we were having too many calving problems and cows not lasting long enough. By going down the saler road we are averaging nearly another 2 calves from our cows and I don’t think we’re sacrificing quality. I really like the sims but just weren’t lasting long enough between feet and udders. In an ideal world my cows would be salers bred from sim cows. I have 25 pedigrees and sell a lot of bulls to farmers with sim cows and the heifers of them are beautiful. Creeps go out late July - mid August those steers will of had around 5 kg of conc a day from weaning to sale at 10-11 months. We could prob push them harder as 450 plus ones won’t be grazed they’ll just be kept going and killed late July/August

I've generally found Sim udders to stay good as long as I avoided the rough Aberdeenshire types.

Did I read somewhere that's my you guys had tried a Hereford? Where do they fit into the programme?

 

[M-J-G]

i currently put a lim bull to my sim heifers to get slightly smaller calves than the charolais would a saler be suitable for this job? are you feeding 5kg of straight barley or is there protein mixed in with that? thanks

I AI'd Sim heifers with Saler in the quest to breed the ultimate Suckler cow based on all the great things I'd been told about them, but I'll never do it again.
They were the most mental calves I've ever known. At a few months old they'd have ran at you flat out bawling of they felt under any kind of pressure.
They never made it as cows as I couldn't get them off the farm quick enough as weaned calves.

A mate of mine bought a herd of Saler cows and put a daily update on FB at calving time, cows trying to kill him, a heifer killing her own calf she was so mental, things like that.
He said he was glad when one of his Lim x cows calved down just for a break from the intensity of it all.

I know a fairly successful Saler breeder reasonably well, and I often pick up on him saying "shes quiet for a Saler"
I've also noticed him say similar about them being a bit hard fleshing.

I know a hill place that has them on a ranching style system , and they like them, but I know someone who buys heifers from there and they say they are pretty lethal as cows so they are moving away from them.

I hear some say they can be ok for temperament, but there is too much talk of them being bad for there not to be something to it, so I'd tread with caution.

 

[Woolless]

I AI'd Sim heifers with Saler in the quest to breed the ultimate Suckler cow based on all the great things I'd been told about them, but I'll never do it again.
They were the most mental calves I've ever known. At a few months old they'd have ran at you flat out bawling of they felt under any kind of pressure.
They never made it as cows as I couldn't get them off the farm quick enough as weaned calves.

A mate of mine bought a herd of Saler cows and put a daily update on FB at calving time, cows trying to kill him, a heifer killing her own calf she was so mental, things like that.
He said he was glad when one of his Lim x cows calved down just for a break from the intensity of it all.

I know a fairly successful Saler breeder reasonably well, and I often pick up on him saying "shes quiet for a Saler"
I've also noticed him say similar about them being a bit hard fleshing.

I know a hill place that has them on a ranching style system , and they like them, but I know someone who buys heifers from there and they say they are pretty lethal as cows so they are moving away from them.

I hear some say they can be ok for temperament, but there is too much talk of them being bad for there not to be something to it, so I'd tread with caution.

A Salers breeder once told me that they weren't temperamental, just had a very strong herding instinct. Not sure what truth is in that?

 

[Spartacus]

I AI'd Sim heifers with Saler in the quest to breed the ultimate Suckler cow based on all the great things I'd been told about them, but I'll never do it again.
They were the most mental calves I've ever known. At a few months old they'd have ran at you flat out bawling of they felt under any kind of pressure.
They never made it as cows as I couldn't get them off the farm quick enough as weaned calves.

A mate of mine bought a herd of Saler cows and put a daily update on FB at calving time, cows trying to kill him, a heifer killing her own calf she was so mental, things like that.
He said he was glad when one of his Lim x cows calved down just for a break from the intensity of it all.

I know a fairly successful Saler breeder reasonably well, and I often pick up on him saying "shes quiet for a Saler"
I've also noticed him say similar about them being a bit hard fleshing.

I know a hill place that has them on a ranching style system , and they like them, but I know someone who buys heifers from there and they say they are pretty lethal as cows so they are moving away from them.

I hear some say they can be ok for temperament, but there is too much talk of them being bad for there not to be something to it, so I'd tread with caution.

I had two that were out of angus x cows, they were smart, as heifers they ran with some charolais yearlings, when moving them the salers would be either end, tuck one end in and the other side one went, then the first, etc etc etc. Could go on a while without actually moving anywhere.

When it came to calving at first they were outside and it wasnt a problem, calves up on their feet, sucked, no bother.... gave up back end calving and let them slip to spring calving inside, they were quiet as anything, until calving came round, one we had to milk another cow and go in with a ring feeder to protect ourselves as we tubed milk into the calf (having not seen any sign of it sucking), after a couple of days of that we left it to fend for itself as it wasnt safe. That went after that calf, the other wasnt as lively but still wouldn't trust it at all.

In themselves they were fantastic cows, even after 11 calves (the quieter one) you wouldn't have had them anything over 4 or 5. Sound feet and fertile as well. Have thought of getting more to go along with the charolais bull but havent jumped just yet, hasnt been long enough since the last one went (yet ?‍???).