mob stocking

[Tim May]

looks like its time to plough it all up ... think of the first year wheat you'll get !

That starts this autumn ready for spring crops...

 

[mikep]

I quite agree I've been interested in all kinds of soil tests in the past, but when you look into them there is a great deal of opportunity to get a wrong sample, or a poor representation of what is actually happening. The few that I have done in the past have always come up with the same answer, you need more organic matter to buffer this from that, so I couldn't see the point might just as well get on and work on organic matter and not bother testing. If the soil system is functioning well then its more than likely going to be the case that there's a better availability of minerals and water about than if it isn't.
I didn't really appreciate smelling soil until the other day I went to a farm and I couldn't smell a thing, I'm starting to build a better picture of what a good smell is against a bad one, but its not something taught anywhere. so when I see results doing well like this and the soil is smelling like it does that probably I can start to get a better idea of what to smell for

This hits the nail firmly as for years we were taught science but not farming. Being an old fart I learnt a lot from the war generation and they were phenomenal farmers. In my first job as a lad on a farm the old boy started passing on his knowledge as if by osmosis. First rule to judge land don't look at the crop look at the weeds may seem strange but don't look at what we want it to grow but what it grows naturally, obvious when you think about it. They would use their senses in a way an animal does and work from that, no lab reports or agronomists just judging when to harrow a crop so the weeds die but the crop not. I am not saying that there is no place for science but it's like a sat nav, rely on it totally and you will soon have your artic up a cull de sac.

 

[Dan Powell]

This hits the nail firmly as for years we were taught science but not farming. Being an old fart I learnt a lot from the war generation and they were phenomenal farmers. In my first job as a lad on a farm the old boy started passing on his knowledge as if by osmosis. First rule to judge land don't look at the crop look at the weeds may seem strange but don't look at what we want it to grow but what it grows naturally, obvious when you think about it. They would use their senses in a way an animal does and work from that, no lab reports or agronomists just judging when to harrow a crop so the weeds die but the crop not. I am not saying that there is no place for science but it's like a sat nav, rely on it totally and you will soon have your artic up a cull de sac.

I was thinking the other day that the best way to manage a crop rotation would be to shallow till after harvest, see what grows and then find a crop that likes similar conditions. So for most blackgrass infested soils, probably a grass ley. If you get a lot of charlock, then turnips for grazing. Probably nonsense but your post shows that it might not be.

Now what does groundsel like...? (quick google search....)

http://www.almanac.com/blog/gardening/gardening/weeds-indicator-plants

...ah rich soil. Super, my lucky oilseed rape crop. Pity the slugs preferred the rape.

 

[mikep]

I was thinking the other day that the best way to manage a crop rotation would be to shallow till after harvest, see what grows and then find a crop that likes similar conditions. So for most blackgrass infested soils, probably a grass ley. If you get a lot of charlock, then turnips for grazing. Probably nonsense but your post shows that it might not be.

Now what does groundsel like...? (quick google search....)

http://www.almanac.com/blog/gardening/gardening/weeds-indicator-plants

...ah rich soil. Super, my lucky oilseed rape crop. Pity the slugs preferred the rape.

Funny you should mention rape and this is a fine example of science getting us in the sh!t. Original rape that we grew many moons ago was not anything like as attractive to pests and it had the anti feed elements that were bred out to improve it.
Now it is getting difficult to grow because if slugs and beetle don't get it pigeons will (here anyway).
At the time it was thought no problem as the pests weren't as important as insecticides were effective and you could bang on as much slugof**k as you wanted onto your nice bit of straw free charred earth.

 

[Philip Hedeng]

I was thinking the other day that the best way to manage a crop rotation would be to shallow till after harvest, see what grows and then find a crop that likes similar conditions. So for most blackgrass infested soils, probably a grass ley. If you get a lot of charlock, then turnips for grazing. Probably nonsense but your post shows that it might not be.

Now what does groundsel like...? (quick google search....)

http://www.almanac.com/blog/gardening/gardening/weeds-indicator-plants

...ah rich soil. Super, my lucky oilseed rape crop. Pity the slugs preferred the rape.

Maybe not nonsense still. People like Mark Shepard promote that kind of logic. Elaine Ingham points to bacteria/fungi ratio and other measurements of the soil to assess what kind of plant species thrive in that soil.

 

[cows250]

Thistle I poured molasses on July 30th

Different thistle in the same paddock on Dec. 3rd. Nothing special done to the plant, just took a walk and saw my favorite steer having a snack. This area was overgrown lawn in 2014 so there is limited clovers to provide extra protein to balance the grass. I am very hopeful that he can teach next year's batch of steers, heifers, and dry cows to do the same trick. Gains averaged 2+ pounds per day until 2 weeks ago. Now there is 8" of hard snow on the ground and they are getting 1st crop hay. They are all full, fuzzy, and seem OK, but I expect gains of 1 pound/day or less on the hay.

To add to the madness I am trying to get 50-100 goat wethers and some weaner pigs to add to the cattle and sheep next year. Lamb in the freezer is some of the best meat I have ever tasted and a big hit at recent holiday meals.

 

[dontknowanything]

http://thriplow-farms.co.uk/2016/12/21/too-good-to-be-true/

 

[RushesToo]

http://thriplow-farms.co.uk/2016/12/21/too-good-to-be-true/

This:

Is really impressive. @dontknowanything .

The link may stop people looking, seems a shame.

 

[The Ruminant]

http://thriplow-farms.co.uk/2016/12/21/too-good-to-be-true/

Told you it would work
PS want to buy some cows?

 

[dontknowanything]

Told you it would work
PS want to buy some cows?

It's only worked when we get better yields for a decade afterwards. Come back in 2025!

 

[The Ruminant]

It's only worked when we get better yields for a decade afterwards. Come back in 2025!

Ok..... I'm telling you it'll work
PS Want to buy some cows?

 

[dontknowanything]

Ok..... I'm telling you it'll work
PS Want to buy some cows?

Not yet

 

[York]

Not yet

you are still maybe tooo bound in your "laisy" way of arable farming......
York-Th.
p.s. I can say it as towny very easy, can't I.....

 

[dontknowanything]

you are still maybe tooo bound in your "laisy" way of arable farming......
York-Th.
p.s. I can say it as towny very easy, can't I.....

There is an element of the truth in there.

But more important is whether we do see productivity increases, and also what sort of a weed problem have I created.

 

[martian]

We put in 100 acres or so of herbal ley last Autumn. Slightly swamped by blackgrass which we perhaps should have grazed earlier but hadn't got round to fencing until last week what with one thing and another. Mob chomping through blackgrass and revealing ley underneath. Hoping bg will give up now.

..

 

[Dan Powell]

We put in 100 acres or so of herbal ley last Autumn. Slightly swamped by blackgrass which we perhaps should have grazed earlier but hadn't got round to fencing until last week what with one thing and another. Mob chomping through blackgrass and revealing ley underneath. Hoping bg will give up now.

..

To paraphrase Greg Judy, "Shucks, you layin' down some carbon there."

 

[Dan Powell]

On the subject of herbal leys, is it normal for the chicory to get 6 foot tall? Quite entertaining watching my anguses learning how to strip all the leaves off and leave just the stalk.

 

[mikep]

The elephant in the room is that the market for beef is a bit inelastic too many cows price bums, end of, life's a bitch.

 

[Dan Powell]

The elephant in the room is that the market for beef is a bit inelastic too many cows price bums, end of, life's a bitch.

I agree. I think everyone should realise what hard work it is keeping cattle and how unprofitable too. Everyone reading this should give up and just focus on arable cropping.

 

[Brisel]

What is your stocking rate @martian ?