Organic no till system ?

Clive

Staff Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Lichfield
The problem is the proper rotation has just gone out the window. There are not enough break crop alternatives to losing OSr so I am forced to second cereals to lower break area to 33%
there are plenty of break crops, what you are really saying is there are not enough beak crops with the big margins needed to cashflow a high fixed cost farming business

I grow no 2nd cereals, have 10% OSR area and have the lower gross output which is fine as fixed costs match

OSR is only not working because its been grown too much, grow in 1 year in 7 or less and it much less of a highly strung beast !
 
there are plenty of break crops, what you are really saying is there are not enough beak crops with the big margins needed to cashflow a high fixed cost farming business

I grow no 2nd cereals, have 10% OSR area and have the lower gross output which is fine as fixed costs match

OSR is only not working because its been grown too much, grow in 1 year in 7 or less and it much less of a highly strung beast !
agreed. take it youre growing 50% first wheat with the other 50% made up of 5 or 6 breaks?
trouble is ive tried all the breaks and each throws out differing problems that steers me away from it
Beans/Peas - 1 in 6 yrs max
Linseed - Fleabeetle - harvesting
potatoes - no chance
sugar beet - soil damage
oats - overdone
clover ley - getting paid ?

maybe just need to try harder

with only 33% breaks, I could nearly get the same GM if it was all fallow!!
 

Clive

Staff Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Lichfield
agreed. take it youre growing 50% first wheat with the other 50% made up of 5 or 6 breaks?
trouble is ive tried all the breaks and each throws out differing problems that steers me away from it
Beans/Peas - 1 in 6 yrs max
Linseed - Fleabeetle - harvesting
potatoes - no chance
sugar beet - soil damage
oats - overdone
clover ley - getting paid ?

maybe just need to try harder

with only 33% breaks, I could nearly get the same GM if it was all fallow!!
yes 50% first wheat, 10% OSR, the rest is winter beans and a diverse mix of spring breaks after over winter cover crops - Im running half the kit and staff I would if I was all autumn cropped so can afford a drop in gross output but still remain more profitable

I am experimenting with some no till continuous wheat though with a cover crop break - early days yet however
 

Fuzzy

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Bedfordshire
yes 50% first wheat, 10% OSR, the rest is winter beans and a diverse mix of spring breaks after over winter cover crops - Im running half the kit and staff I would if I was all autumn cropped so can afford a drop in gross output but still remain more profitable

I am experimenting with some no till continuous wheat though with a cover crop break - early days yet however
What mix are you using in the continuous wheat cover crop, i am doing the same with barley but tempted just to use mustard as CC.
 

Clive

Staff Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Lichfield
What mix are you using in the continuous wheat cover crop, i am doing the same with barley but tempted just to use mustard as CC.
mustard, sunflower and linseed - all cheap and fast growing as only in the ground 2 months max

a bit of N as well on them to get rapid growth

bit early to draw any conclusions yet
 
I have second and third cereal this year due to osr failure

In the 1990s take all was reduced where min till (scratch min till )was used the reason given then was that tighter soil reduced the effects of take all
Loose seed beds did make take all worse especially on fields that had loamy higher organic matter 2nd or third cereal after long term grass

The 2 problems with second wheat is takeall and grassweeds from early planting

With fields with no blackgrass second or third cereal is an option In drier autumns when later October planting would reduce takeall and reduce weed risks

As for organic the problem with spring blw is hard to ocher come
My grand father who started farming in the 1920s before herbicides spent a lot of his time using a hoe producing veg when asked about organic farming never go back
When we have robots that do the cost effective weeding the organic option may be possible but by then there may be no premium price
 

New Puritan

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
East Sussex
I think Stephen Briggs is working on an inter-row mower to keep the under-storey of clover/trefoil down while the cereal crop shoots up. I tried to get Garford to demo their inter-row hoe at Groundswell and they said it wouldn't work in no-till...whether the guy had just got out of bed the wrong side I don't know, but looking at how hard our ground is now, I suspect he might be on to something. Mowing is pleasing idea...constant living roots in the soil
@martian - I've re-read this thread during an idle moment and it's got me wondering about a few things. Is Stephen Briggs a TFF member? His name often comes up during slightly out-there discussions and it sounds like he does some interesting stuff.

@Clive have you thought any more about the inter-row mower idea? I've been reading up and watching videos etc. of Garford and of CTM Weed Surfers, and your idea sounds sort of like a cross between the two. Someone should get them to collaborate on a prototype. And if they do, can I have a go with it please? :)

Out of interest, has anyone on here much experience of the above equipment? Or Combcutters for that matter? I've searched TFF for all of these and they get mentioned here and there, but not often so just wondering if anyone has any more recent experience / thoughts on them.
 

B'o'B

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Rutland
@martian - I've re-read this thread during an idle moment and it's got me wondering about a few things. Is Stephen Briggs a TFF member? His name often comes up during slightly out-there discussions and it sounds like he does some interesting stuff.

@Clive have you thought any more about the inter-row mower idea? I've been reading up and watching videos etc. of Garford and of CTM Weed Surfers, and your idea sounds sort of like a cross between the two. Someone should get them to collaborate on a prototype. And if they do, can I have a go with it please? :)

Out of interest, has anyone on here much experience of the above equipment? Or Combcutters for that matter? I've searched TFF for all of these and they get mentioned here and there, but not often so just wondering if anyone has any more recent experience / thoughts on them.
Stephen Briggs is a very interesting and knowledgeable chap. Im pretty sure he isn’t on here, as far as I can tell he is far to busy actually doing things to spend any time on here anyway! He gives talks up and down the country on a variety of ag subjects and it’s well worth going to one if you get the chance.
He’s an all round good egg as far as I’m concerned!
 

Richard III

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
CW5 Cheshire
@martian - I've re-read this thread during an idle moment and it's got me wondering about a few things. Is Stephen Briggs a TFF member? His name often comes up during slightly out-there discussions and it sounds like he does some interesting stuff.

@Clive have you thought any more about the inter-row mower idea? I've been reading up and watching videos etc. of Garford and of CTM Weed Surfers, and your idea sounds sort of like a cross between the two. Someone should get them to collaborate on a prototype. And if they do, can I have a go with it please? :)

Out of interest, has anyone on here much experience of the above equipment? Or Combcutters for that matter? I've searched TFF for all of these and they get mentioned here and there, but not often so just wondering if anyone has any more recent experience / thoughts on them.
It's worth following Stephen Briggs on Twitter.

@Steve95226621
 

Clive

Staff Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Lichfield
@martian - I've re-read this thread during an idle moment and it's got me wondering about a few things. Is Stephen Briggs a TFF member? His name often comes up during slightly out-there discussions and it sounds like he does some interesting stuff.

@Clive have you thought any more about the inter-row mower idea? I've been reading up and watching videos etc. of Garford and of CTM Weed Surfers, and your idea sounds sort of like a cross between the two. Someone should get them to collaborate on a prototype. And if they do, can I have a go with it please? :)

Out of interest, has anyone on here much experience of the above equipment? Or Combcutters for that matter? I've searched TFF for all of these and they get mentioned here and there, but not often so just wondering if anyone has any more recent experience / thoughts on them.

we are supposed to be doing a field lab on the idea - trouble is weather has stopped me getting the clover drilled and I fear its too late now
 

db1210

New Member
how though - from what I can see the way to make money from milk involves robots and cows never seeing a field ? its also huge investment for very low returns
And they are very unreliable I have a friend who put some 4 years ago and they wore out and a lot of money to replace
 

Tractorporn

New Member
Hi sorry for bringing back up this thread but I've been reading with interest as I am currently in conversion to organic with roughly one third the farm to cropping.

The idea of inter row mowing has been investigated a bit for organic maize in the US with the Underground Agriculture Company having made a strimmer for 60' (I think) row widths.


Might be something that could be modified for a narrower row spacing?
 

Clive

Staff Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Lichfield
Hi sorry for bringing back up this thread but I've been reading with interest as I am currently in conversion to organic with roughly one third the farm to cropping.

The idea of inter row mowing has been investigated a bit for organic maize in the US with the Underground Agriculture Company having made a strimmer for 60' (I think) row widths.


Might be something that could be modified for a narrower row spacing?
yes - a lot more thought and some interesting conversations and meetings at Agritechnica - can’t say more on that yet but watch this space !

I had planned (and have seed here) to establish a areas of understory this autumn ready for wide row spacing wheat but weather has wreaked my plans so far !
 
its more like 12 on some now and with Claydon / min till before that 25 years since some will have seen a plough

Also have some that is in year 1 though !
Hi, are you brave enough to do a video of yourself, preferably on your farm, talking about the pros and cons of no till. What you have found has worked and that some things don't one year but do another...? I may have introduced myself already - sorry if I have. Along with a small group of volunteers, I am putting a website together, 'Regenerative food & farming'. Knowing farmers learn best from other farmers want to get lots of farmers on video on there covering all regions and farm types. So I need lots. Also, there's load from the US and some from OZ but very few from here. What do you think? (-:
 
trouble is i'm just not interested in farming livestock for a living and it's not within my skill set - I can see the benefit of livestock but if I ever did anything it would have to be with a partner who knew that side of the job
Surely an opportunity to involve a youngster or diversify using an expert who is already established and kitted up?
 
I like your idea, I think there may be an issue with establishing a cash crop though. For example, wheat drilled into living clover really struggles to get going initially. If you could put nutrition in the seed trench, this might help some and your strimming machine could be used just above ground level at drilling time to help I suppose.
I have noticed that ordinary commercial productive w clover can be allelopathic in the autumn. Great for suppressing blackgrass but none of the sown cover crop grew either! What does the panel think about grazing the clover (or other) before during or after planting instead of glyphosate?
 

snarling bee

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Bedfordshire
Interesting, the only seed treatments I've used this cropping year are for take all, was hoping not to use any in the future so that is encouraging
Can't believe I read this. After all you have preached in the past.
I grow lots of second/third and continuous wheat and will not waste my money on it, don't need it.
 

AGCO reports sales increase of 43.5% compared to 2020 figures

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Written by Agriland Team from Agriland

The tractor manufacturer AGCO, which consists of brands such as Challenger, Fendt, GSI, Massey Ferguson and Valtra, reported its results for the second quarter ending June 30, 2021.

Net sales for the second quarter were approximately $2.9 billion, an increase of approximately 43.5% compared to the second quarter of 2020.

AEM

Reported net income was $3.73/share for the second quarter of 2021, and adjusted...
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