Reseeding grass proven a waste of time?

[Macsky]

https://www.rothamsted.ac.uk/news/study-shows-costs-reseeding-permanent-pasture#PUBLICATION-


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167880919301884?via=ihub

So what’s the thoughts on this?

 

[Still Farming]

If you grow weeds and annual meadow grass then it can only get better.
Established long term with clover maybe takes time to gain once more

 

[Poorbuthappy]

I always used to question whether simply addressing the issues in old pasture (lime, p & k, weeds) would see much of the benefits of a full reseed without the associated costs.
Also felt that as someone who never was a heavy N user I didn't see the full benefits of a reseed because many of the new varieties were bred with high N use in mind.
Chap I used to work for said his pp swards were so much thicker than reseeds he'd looked at. You could see so much bare ground in a reseed whilst you certainly couldn't in a well managed pp.

Now I've heading down the bearded, sandal wearing route and taken an active interest in regenerative farming, I'm all the more convinced I just want to improve my pasture with grazing management not the plough and ryegrass.
I know that won't be to everyone's taste but there, I've said it now

 

[Devon James]

I always used to question whether simply addressing the issues in old pasture (lime, p & k, weeds) would see much of the benefits of a full reseed without the associated costs.
Also felt that as someone who never was a heavy N user I didn't see the full benefits of a reseed because many of the new varieties were bred with high N use in mind.
Chap I used to work for said his pp swards were so much thicker than reseeds he'd looked at. You could see so much bare ground in a reseed whilst you certainly couldn't in a well managed pp.

Now I've heading down the bearded, sandal wearing route and taken an active interest in regenerative farming, I'm all the more convinced I just want to improve my pasture with grazing management not the plough and ryegrass.
I know that won't be to everyone's taste but there, I've said it now

I didn't spot the sandals today, and the beard needs some working on [emoji23]

 

[tr250]

Yes I agree. People talk about their rubbish grass where I think it may be more a management issue

 

[Bury the Trash]

So North Wyke have changed their mind then, from advising that reseeding is a good thing to do ...

Seems like these days they don't know wether they want a shi t or a haircut .

But then....it depends where the funding comes from i guess

I'm old enough and ugly enough to make my own mind up thanks

Clover, clover plus a bit of clover .......
....Is the important bit anyway, and that is what N. Wyke was saying 30 yrs ago so at least that bits consistant.

Happy days

 

[neilo]

Doesn’t it depend on what grassland species are there already?

If you have a field entirely full of couch and annual meadow grass then it doesn’t really matter how you manage it, you won’t improve it much. If you have some productive species present then managing it appropriately can encourage those species and increase production.

I had a guy soil testing a year or so ago, who had last been to do the same three years previously. He tested several fields on an off lying block that I had defended into small fields (existing fences having been long gone, and left as gappy hedges), where I have been grazing rotationally every year. He commented that my swardlifting and reseeding program was obviously paying dividends. I have never used the swardlifter on that block (no need) and had only reseeded a couple of the worst fields. However there was ryegrass and clover in the existing (abused) swards, which have been encouraged. Still working on encouraging the clover more, but Fibrophos application seems to be the daddy for that.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

I didn't spot the sandals today, and the beard needs some working on [emoji23]

Shhh! Truth is more than 4 days and I'm reaching for the razor - drives me nuts. I'll never make a real hippie.

 

[JD-Kid]

ummmmmm
alot will depend on whats there already even if. it's cocksfoot the newer. types may not grow any more in yield but. could be better in sugars and higher animal outputs
same with older regresses. could have animal health problems or growing times not suited to. farm management
alot of the reasons the older paddocks are buggered. can be. from management or just plants that grow in that area
a new reseed can have a lot of diffrent things in it but over 4-5 year even with good management some things will die out

 

[JD-Kid]

had a quick look at it. and it's not realy cutting edge if the clovers are high in the reseed. then the use of bagged N will drop
grass alone reseeding will not have much of a gain after the first 1-3 years. which is. right of not feed. all the time
pleased someone. wasted funding to tell good farmers how to suck eggs.

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

I think there is a lot of truth in this. We bought some very neglected grassland 6 years ago which hadn't been reseeded for many years. The first year the buttercups made it look like a field of oilseed rape and they were just hiding the thistles and nettles.etc. It was sprayed with forefront, some drains fixed, limed and dressed with high P&K fertilizer as the indices were nearer 1 than 2. It's been mucked every year and gets a couple of bags to the acre of 20:10:10 (I'm very old fashioned and still work with units per acre). Yields have increased by (as measured by bales) by about 75%. The next stage was to reseed but I've been questioning whether to especially if we are going to have a tough few years.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

The most surprising thing in this report is that they genuinely sound surprised by the results

 

[Benr]

What is the most successful way to introduce clover to an existing pasture? We have had to spray out a lot of docks and hence have very little clover!

 

[AndrewM]

Its quite a difficult paper to read, all figures have been converted into nitrogen efficiency. I dont quite understand how each farmlet was grazed, mentioned 30 cattle and 70 ewes and lambs. Was that set stocked in each treatment, or were they weighed in and out. What was the grazing method? Were they utilizing any additional grass that was grown or was it just going to waste?

Does it matter if nitrogen use efficiency doesnt vary between treatment if reseeds can grow more grass?

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Doesn’t it depend on what grassland species are there already?

If you have a field entirely full of couch and annual meadow grass then it doesn’t really matter how you manage it, you won’t improve it much. If you have some productive species present then managing it appropriately can encourage those species and increase production.

I had a guy soil testing a year or so ago, who had last been to do the same three years previously. He tested several fields on an off lying block that I had defended into small fields (existing fences having been long gone, and left as gappy hedges), where I have been grazing rotationally every year. He commented that my swardlifting and reseeding program was obviously paying dividends. I have never used the swardlifter on that block (no need) and had only reseeded a couple of the worst fields. However there was ryegrass and clover in the existing (abused) swards, which have been encouraged. Still working on encouraging the clover more, but Fibrophos application seems to be the daddy for that.

would love to use fibrophos, but unfortunately organic rules prevent it's use (I think because the hens are not kept to organic standards?)

 

[Henarar]

not read the report but no sh!t Sherlock
https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/reseeding-grass-for-suckler-cows-why-bother.229216/

 

[betweenthelines]

Bit like saying your tractor doesn't pull very well, should you change it for a newer one? It might just need the fuel filters changing, it may need new injectors. If it's a 50 year old Dexta, it ain't going to get any better.

As Neilo said, it all depends on what you start with.

 

[Henarar]

Bit like saying your tractor doesn't pull very well, should you change it for a newer one? It might just need the fuel filters changing, it may need new injectors. If it's a 50 year old Dexta, it ain't going to get any better.

As Neilo said, it all depends on what you start with.

plenty of 50 year old pasture here
I would suggest that unless you are going to reseed repetitively under 10 years probably nearer 5 then the older the better
and yes old pasture will change with different management I've seen that happen often enough

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Bit like saying your tractor doesn't pull very well, should you change it for a newer one? It might just need the fuel filters changing, it may need new injectors. If it's a 50 year old Dexta, it ain't going to get any better.

As Neilo said, it all depends on what you start with.

But even what you start with will change with different management, as Henarar says.
There's a fair old bank of seeds in the ground, and probably a fair diversity of plants in any given pp. Just a case of encouraging the better ones. Though different species will excel in different conditions. Another good reason for diversity.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

I think ph, lime, p, k (maybe calcium magnesium ratio - Albrect) and clean ditches out first before thinking of reseeding