- Location
- Dumfries & Galloway
Reseeding grass proven a waste of time?
- Thread starter Macsky
- Start date
- Location
- thames valley
I remember back in the 50`s there was a Small Farmers Grant scheme for improving grass land which my father took up, I can`t remember if there was any sprays that could burn off the old grass. I do remember a all singing and dancing long term mixture being slot seeded in, and within 2 years the fields had reverted back to mainly Yorkshire Fog and Meadow Grass, there was no change in management.
- Location
- Northumberland
For best results you want your grass like your women ................................ Young & lush
Then its down to management
Then its down to management
Y Fan Wen
Member
- Location
- N W Snowdonia
Pwllpeiran EHF showed how it was possible to turn a typical mountain bent/fescue sward into a wwc/ryegrass sward using only nutrients and managed grazing. No seed, the wwc ryegrass must have come with the stock.
In the mid 70s we did a major liming exercise on 90 acres of typical white mountain. Even though there was no change we could see by eye the following year, the quality of the stock coming off it was vastly improved. 40+ years later, with no follow on treatment, we are still benefiting from that investment.
In the mid 70s we did a major liming exercise on 90 acres of typical white mountain. Even though there was no change we could see by eye the following year, the quality of the stock coming off it was vastly improved. 40+ years later, with no follow on treatment, we are still benefiting from that investment.
Often wondered if I’m doing More harm then good using artificial fertilizers. Often thought does using them they just make the pasture more dependant on them ? Would I be just better off grazing correctly and letting nature do the rest on my 40-60 year old red and white clover filled pastures ?
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- Location
- East Sussex
I haven’t studied the papers but good grazing isn’t the same as good silage ground. Some grasses will never provide a big cut of silo nor utilise the nutrients available to them very efficiently whilst being forced to do so.
Reseed for silo, manage for grazing. The problem is finding a decent grass mix when reseeding silo ground into grazing,
Reseed for silo, manage for grazing. The problem is finding a decent grass mix when reseeding silo ground into grazing,
ollie989898
Member
All things being equal, a new ley with modern grasses should produce far more forage per acre and it will be far higher quality, too.
Of course, there are people who can fudge even grass up. Modern forage crops are bred for output, they need feeding. How far would you get in a Ferrari if you only put 30 year old 2 star in it?
If the P or K or pH is fudged, you can expect a modern ley to either not perform, disappear inside 4 years or both.
Of course, there are people who can fudge even grass up. Modern forage crops are bred for output, they need feeding. How far would you get in a Ferrari if you only put 30 year old 2 star in it?
If the P or K or pH is fudged, you can expect a modern ley to either not perform, disappear inside 4 years or both.
Modern grasses are more productive when being fed artificial inputs, is there much emphasis on breeding productive varieties in low input situations? There’s bound to be varieties of ryegrass that perform better without N applications than others. Are varieties for organic situations bred differently than for conventional?
ollie989898
Member
All plants grow better when their environment is more conductive to growth. There is no short-cut or magic ingredient I'm afraid, if you want to enhance plant growth you have to tweak the environment they are in and provide them more resources or make it so that they can find them more easily.
The alternative is to work with what you have and adapt how the cattle or livestock interact with it- as with the mob stocking type principle, where your species in question are utilised in a different way. I no longer have any ear to the ground regarding the breeding side but I guess the persistence rating would be the main thing to look at in the variety lists.
The trouble is that all of these species we can buy commercially are not really the same as those we find growing in the UK indigenously; they have been bred for a specific reason and to fulfill the aims of the majority of farmers.
I have no doubt a low-input approach can work but you will not find many hand holders out there because there isn't any money to made from you as there is nothing to sell. In fairness, the majority of farmers I know are already well clued up on grass and how to do the job, only some fine tuning and leg work like weed control and soil sampling is required.
reseeding is bound to be best as those selling the seed, fert and other inputs will tell you, oh and buying the machinery to do the job is excellent as well as the salesperson will be only to glad to inform you
keeping the moneydon't be silly
Turnovers for vanity, profits for sanity.
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
If you maintain clover in the ley, it will provide plenty of N for modern ryegrass to flourish.
The orgasmatrons utilise clover to provide N, not manage without it. They don’t like to acknowledge it of course, but conventional farmers can, and do, achieve the same thing.
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- Location
- Montgomeryshire
There doesn’t appear to be any accounting for the increased quality of the reseeded leys in their calculations, or the fact that ryegrass, if managed well, will maintain that quality for longer into the growing season.
I note also, that the reseeding is done with a conventional plough based system, which can be made to look very bad in Carbon release calculations.
Data such as this can be made to say whatever you like.
Stop spraying stuff that'll kill it for a start!
Do you have cows and sheep? They eat docks quite happily!
There's probably a load of seed still in the ground and it may come back on its own, or go in with a bucket of seed mix and lash some out when you've moved your stock....or give the cows a feed of some... mine were grazing a field which had ripe clover in it, there was thousands of seeds in their muck which showed up in the next field.
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multi power
Member
- Location
- pembrokeshire
Neil, we are very happy to acknowledge the role clover plays, but we don't really want to give away all the secretsIf you maintain clover in the key, it will provide plenty of N for modern ryegrass to flourish.
The orgasmatrons utilise clover to provide N, not manage without it. They don’t like to acknowledge it of course, but conventional farmers can, and do, achieve the same thing.
multi power
Member
- Location
- pembrokeshire
As for not reeseeding, how long would a herd of cows last if you stopped introducing hefiers ?
they would have heifers of their own, no need to buy in
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
Heifers of your own are still ‘introduced’, which is (I assume) @multi power ’s point.
If you stop bringing new blood in, what happens as the old ‘uns die out?
My initial suspicion when I read this was that it was completely oversimplified, so much so that it had an inevitable conclusion, which makes me wonder who needs the ‘latest research’ to prove what. My cynicism is depressing.
By experience I would say that any reseed is only as good and long lasting as the preparation done beforehand (months and years beforehand) and management thereafter, and in theory and hope would say that one well executed reseed would last indefinitely.
I think @Henarar point was that with good grasses and clovers in permanent pasture being perennial, that they should be able to replace themselves with favourable management, rather than replaced by reseeding.