Can TM engine fit into MF 1200....

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
you do talk some drivel ex owners have posted how well they grip,so put your money where your mouth is borrow Simon chiles plough (If available) and get ready to eat humble pie, the 1200 would leave your 5445 and a 3090, come on!!
On what basis to you claim that? The power is about the same. The weight very similar with front weights fitted. The back end of the rigid tractor is heavier. The tyres the same size. I fail to see where the traction advantage of the 1200 comes from, especially as the semi-mounted plough has no real weight distribution through draft control or any slip control on the tractor. No independent brakes either.
 

fiat 9090

Member
Location
co offaly eire
why do you say its illegal ?
The chap that I talked about earlier in the thread that had a 1200 for pulling a slew around then had an artic unit with a hitch on, on red, tractor tax and got pulled in and let go on his way
your probably right about the police but if there was a serious accident and been driven by a young lad on a tractor licence only then it's a different story .
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
unless you put them side by side nobody would know.
Ducky talks of putting a set of weights on the 3090 but couldn't a 1200 be specked with PAVT's 4 of them would help out.
Weights on the front of rigid tractors that plough are pretty much standard fitment. You never ever see weights on the front of a 1200 for two reasons. Firstly approximately the same weight is on the front due to the engine hanging out there but secondly is that they just can't lift enough to need any more. The rear end of the 1200 is relatively light weight. It has a good balance but no better than a rigid fitted with the obligatory set of front cast iron.
As Simon mentions, when the front of a 1200 does lift off, it can be quite scary.

The 1200 is based on an American design which was primarily for use with trailed implements. The back end is basically from a MF185 from the same era. The front axle is the same apart from, if I remember correctly, the unique crown wheel and pinion. The tractor looks big due to the high set cab and the gap in the middle, behind the cab, which has a few linkages and fresh air.
 
On what basis to you claim that? The power is about the same. The weight very similar with front weights fitted. The back end of the rigid tractor is heavier. The tyres the same size. I fail to see where the traction advantage of the 1200 comes from, especially as the semi-mounted plough has no real weight distribution through draft control or any slip control on the tractor. No independent brakes either.
read the posts on this thread from two owners (one an ex owner) ,i also spoke to an ex owner in Cornwall, who also stated how well they pulled, it has also been posted on the thread about the advantages of equal wheels, please Man up and admit your Wrong just this once !!
 

7610 super q

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
Weights on the front of rigid tractors that plough are pretty much standard fitment. You never ever see weights on the front of a 1200 for two reasons. Firstly approximately the same weight is on the front due to the engine hanging out there but secondly is that they just can't lift enough to need any more. The rear end of the 1200 is relatively light weight. It has a good balance but no better than a rigid fitted with the obligatory set of front cast iron.
As Simon mentions, when the front of a 1200 does lift off, it can be quite scary.

The 1200 is based on an American design which was primarily for use with trailed implements. The back end is basically from a MF185 from the same era. The front axle is the same apart from, if I remember correctly, the unique crown wheel and pinion. The tractor looks big due to the high set cab and the gap in the middle, behind the cab, which has a few linkages and fresh air.
I didn't say anything about weights on the front I mentioned PAVT's
And I do know a something about 1200's as I have used one, have you ?
 
Weights on the front of rigid tractors that plough are pretty much standard fitment. You never ever see weights on the front of a 1200 for two reasons. Firstly approximately the same weight is on the front due to the engine hanging out there but secondly is that they just can't lift enough to need any more. The rear end of the 1200 is relatively light weight. It has a good balance but no better than a rigid fitted with the obligatory set of front cast iron.
As Simon mentions, when the front of a 1200 does lift off, it can be quite scary.

The 1200 is based on an American design which was primarily for use with trailed implements. The back end is basically from a MF185 from the same era. The front axle is the same apart from, if I remember correctly, the unique crown wheel and pinion. The tractor looks big due to the high set cab and the gap in the middle, behind the cab, which has a few linkages and fresh air.
please read other peoples replies as i have already stated the axles are from the dreadful 1080 tractor the predecssor to your dreadful (in your opinion) 595 tractor,also you praise your JD 2140, although good reliable ,nice to drive tractors were not noted for their grip and certainly not torque ,something JD put right in the later 2650/2850 models
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
read the posts on this thread from two owners (one an ex owner) ,i also spoke to an ex owner in Cornwall, who also stated how well they pulled, it has also been posted on the thread about the advantages of equal wheels, please Man up and admit your Wrong just this once !!
You have gone to far with this post
Have you not read the TFF rules
Ducky cannot be wrong.
 

multi power

Member
Location
pembrokeshire
you do talk some drivel ex owners have posted how well they grip,so put your money where your mouth is borrow Simon chiles plough (If available) and get ready to eat humble pie, the 1200 would leave your 5445 and a 3090, come on!!
Correct, a friend of mine had a 1200, changed it for a 3095 turbo, he always tells me the 3095 has nowhere near the grip of the 1200
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
read the posts on this thread from two owners (one an ex owner) ,i also spoke to an ex owner in Cornwall, who also stated how well they pulled, it has also been posted on the thread about the advantages of equal wheels, please Man up and admit your Wrong just this once !!
Such tractors are extinct. They don't make them any more for a reason. Indeed at just over 100hp, nobody but MF made such a thing and they didn't sell that many. If they were superior, as you claim, not only would they have sold many more than they did but they would have continued to sell well for much longer than they did. Fact is they were only built for about ten years and they struggled to find a market for the last few of those.
I'm not saying that they were a bad tractor. Just that they were of their time and the performance advantage just was not there once the competition got going with modern rigid high power 4wd, centre drive rigids. People soon changed for rigid tractors.
 

multi power

Member
Location
pembrokeshire
On what basis to you claim that? The power is about the same. The weight very similar with front weights fitted. The back end of the rigid tractor is heavier. The tyres the same size. I fail to see where the traction advantage of the 1200 comes from, especially as the semi-mounted plough has no real weight distribution through draft control or any slip control on the tractor. No independent brakes either.
So your 5400 series MF has 16.9 34 tyres all round?
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
So your 5400 series MF has 16.9 34 tyres all round?

No it hasn't but the fronts are not that much narrower. Of course if I had the optional low profile tyres for field work fitted they might well be wider than the 16.9/14-30 or 34 fitted to the 1200. They are wider all round than the 13.6/12-38 tyres some 1200 tractors were fitted with. There was no low profile option at that time and radials were only available late in the 1200's production. Radial tyres make a massive difference to traction for a given size of tyre. The optional tyre sizes available for the 1200 were very limited indeed compared to today consisting of, for most of its life, 12-38, 14-30, 14-34 and 15-30 cross plies. Later on, from around 1978 onwards, radials became more widely available for the performance oriented farmers who were willing to pay the [then] considerable premium for [initially] Kleber and GoodYear radials.
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
No it hasn't but the fronts are not that much narrower. Of course if I had the optional low profile tyres for field work fitted they might well be wider than the 16.9-30 or 34 fitted to the 1200. There was no low profile option at that time and radials were only available late in the 1200's production. Radial tyres make a massive difference to traction for a given size of tyre. The optional tyre sizes available for the 1200 were very limited indeed compared to today consisting of, for most of its life, 12-38, 14-30, 14-34 and 15-30 cross plies. Later on, from around 1978 onwards, radials became more widely available for the performance oriented farmers who were willing to pay the [then] considerable premium for [initially] Kleber and GoodYear radials.
But radials were available on some 1200's so could be used for this competition
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
please read other peoples replies as i have already stated the axles are from the dreadful 1080 tractor the predecssor to your dreadful (in your opinion) 595 tractor,also you praise your JD 2140, although good reliable ,nice to drive tractors were not noted for their grip and certainly not torque ,something JD put right in the later 2650/2850 models
The 2140 would run rings around the 595 all day long, including torque at low revs. Even though rated at 82hp compared with 88 for the 595, in practice the A4.318 was a turd.
The 1200 tractors I saw did not have the larger hubs from the 595 rear axle. They had the smaller ones from the 185 and 188. That could have changed during production but I wouldn't know about ones I haven't seen.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
But radials were available on some 1200's so could be used for this competition
Yes they were on late production models as optional extras. I suspect that most will have been fitted with radials after the first or second set of cross-plies wore out. It still didn't make them more desirable to enable sales to remain at sustainable levels. They died out like the dinosaur with no further development being viable. They were just outclassed by the competitors, which included MF's own 3000 and 6400 series whose basic chassis are still in production today, at least 40 years later.
 
Last edited:

multi power

Member
Location
pembrokeshire
No it hasn't but the fronts are not that much narrower. Of course if I had the optional low profile tyres for field work fitted they might well be wider than the 16.9/14-30 or 34 fitted to the 1200. They are wider all round than the 13.6/12-38 tyres some 1200 tractors were fitted with. There was no low profile option at that time and radials were only available late in the 1200's production. Radial tyres make a massive difference to traction for a given size of tyre. The optional tyre sizes available for the 1200 were very limited indeed compared to today consisting of, for most of its life, 12-38, 14-30, 14-34 and 15-30 cross plies. Later on, from around 1978 onwards, radials became more widely available for the performance oriented farmers who were willing to pay the [then] considerable premium for [initially] Kleber and GoodYear radials.
So it doesn't have the same size wheels as a 1200, as your previous post suggested
 

multi power

Member
Location
pembrokeshire
The 2140 would run rings around the 595 all day long, including torque at low revs. Even though rated at 82hp compared with 88 for the 595, in practice the A4.318 was a turd.
The 1200 tractors I saw did not have the larger hubs from the 595 rear axle. They had the smaller ones from the 185 and 188. That could have changed during production but I wouldn't know about ones I haven't seen.
Pretty sure you will find 595 hubs are no larger than 185 hubs, 185 hubs or axles were never fitted to 1200s
 

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