Farm jeep wish list ( aka the Ineos Grenadier Farm R&D thread)

[Cowabunga]

I’ve never known why Toyota don’t offer the 70 series cruisers here.

What are the rules that stop it?

Possibly crash test, safety equipment and emissions. All of which Toyota could sort if they thought there was a market for it here. Which they obviously don't. It is a very crude, expensive truck. You can feel the people gasping and having second thoughts when I mentioned the likely price range of the Grenadier. The Toyota would also be in that price range but for a 40 year old crude truck that people would be disappointed with when they tried it in the metal. Very few business users have been willing to pay for the V6 diesel Amarok and X-Class, both of which are being discontinued after a very short time in production.

CO2 fleet emission targets also work against these vehicles. They need something much more economical or to buy expensive credits from companies like Tesla to offset these things and to avoid swinging tax penalties, which any which way you look at it, pushes the price up with nothing to show for it.

 

[jellybean]

I bought my HJ75 land cruiser pick up in 1986 in Gibraltar and drive it home. No problems there but after I had it serviced a couple of times in Taunton I heard that Toyota UK were pee'd off about it and probably instituted some procedure to stop it happening again.
I have thought about getting one from South Africa but you need to have been living there for a year I think before you can bring one here unless the vehicle is 10 years old. The right 10 year old one would be fine because of their climate but I am getting too old to be bothered.

 

[Still Farming]

Its like the Mitsubishi Pajero and Shogun and same with the Toyota Prada and Colorado etc etc.

 

[Cowabunga]

Its like the Mitsubishi Pajero and Shogun and same with the Toyota Prada and Colorado etc etc.

What is?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

An interesting thread.

It seems the mood in here is for 2 variants, one basic for the hairy livestock type lads:
No a/c, manual controls including high/low box, hose out interior, high output heater, electric windows, central locking, locking diffs, tow bar ready (just bolt it on), robust steps, room for oversize tyres etc.

The "luxury" model:
Has a/c with refrigerated cubby box, cloth/ leather seats, higher spec entertainment with connectivity, cruise control, probably auto lights and wipers etc.

The seems to be agreement all round on reliability, excellent slope stability and rollover protection, ease of maintenance, no nooks and crannies that harbour mud and corrode, excellent on and off road capability, 3.5t towing (more when not limited by road regs), good economy and range, decent mirrors and heater, practical interior storage, lashing points, bodywork you can stand on, space for 4 large occupants, manual handbrake, wide opening doors (but rear door doesn't foul trailer jockey wheels), good soundproofing, proper recovery points, full range of steering/seat adjustment, proper door seals, adjustable ride height, plenty of power points etc.

Options on all variants:
Centre seat, locking centre diff, factory fit winch, suspension air compressor take-off point for tyre inflation, heated screen, night heater, front/rear lightbars etc,

Can I add lights you can change yourself in minutes (shouldn't need it with LEDs but occasionally even they fail), mirrors that can survive cattle having a rub, the ability to switch ALL lights off when lamping and a proper Jack made for use off road. I agree with the military/marine grade electrics too.

 

[Dukes Fit]

Possibly crash test, safety equipment and emissions. All of which Toyota could sort if they thought there was a market for it here. Which they obviously don't. It is a very crude, expensive truck. You can feel the people gasping and having second thoughts when I mentioned the likely price range of the Grenadier. The Toyota would also be in that price range but for a 40 year old crude truck that people would be disappointed with when they tried it in the metal. Very few business users have been willing to pay for the V6 diesel Amarok and X-Class, both of which are being discontinued after a very short time in production.

CO2 fleet emission targets also work against these vehicles. They need something much more economical or to buy expensive credits from companies like Tesla to offset these things and to avoid swinging tax penalties, which any which way you look at it, pushes the price up with nothing to show for it.

There are hundreds of thousands of people around the world very much not disappointed with a 70 series landcruiser.
Indeed the now 79 series ticks a lot of the boxes you have specified.

lengthy wide comfortable cab, electric windows 200+hp, heavy duty load bed, central door locking with keyless entry/start, double din head unit with apple/android/bluetooth connectivity and aux port, good noise insulation, rubber mats, air conditioning, good on and off road performance, full array of airbags, collapsible steering column and retractive seatbelt anchors, ABS brakes, USB socket, 12v cigarette socket, fast idle control and large tank capacity starting at 130litres.
Bearing in mind that they are coil sprung on the front and leaf at the back the ride in a modern 70 series is actually quite plush and they drive very nicely.

The addition of 1 inch spacers on the rear axle makes them track better off road and there are a myriad of accessories both factory and aftermarket available for them.

Again I’ll never know why Toyota haven’t made these available in UK. I don’t imagine it would affect Hilux sales particularly but even if they did they’d still be selling a Toyota product.

 

[stewart]

Possibly crash test, safety equipment and emissions. All of which Toyota could sort if they thought there was a market for it here. Which they obviously don't. It is a very crude, expensive truck. You can feel the people gasping and having second thoughts when I mentioned the likely price range of the Grenadier. The Toyota would also be in that price range but for a 40 year old crude truck that people would be disappointed with when they tried it in the metal. Very few business users have been willing to pay for the V6 diesel Amarok and X-Class, both of which are being discontinued after a very short time in production.

CO2 fleet emission targets also work against these vehicles. They need something much more economical or to buy expensive credits from companies like Tesla to offset these things and to avoid swinging tax penalties, which any which way you look at it, pushes the price up with nothing to show for it.

We had a friends son staying with us while he was working over here, he was telling us how wonderful Landrovers are, told him to take the 70 series to work and let me know what he thought, was converted straight away. Great vehicle, it is relatively basic (isn't that what you want in a functional vehicle) it has stood the test of time and for what we want there is nothing out there to match it.

 

[Sid]

No, I think it could save money? why car manufacturers fit media and nav when 99% of their customers already have it I don't know?

These cars won't be confined to your farm, people go further than that to buy machines, fetch parts, etc

ideally these things should be options, for users like you that don't use the radio why spec one at all ?

I like a large screen to view my radio and sat nav on.

Does this Apple thingy do that?

Ps I hate apple

 

[Clive]

I like a large screen to view my radio and sat nav on.

Does this Apple thingy do that?

Ps I hate apple

yes carplay is double DIN

once you have a car with it you will never want to be without

i‘ve even fitted it to my Defender

 

[Sid]

yes carplay is double DIN

once you have a car with it you will never want to be without

i‘ve even fitted it to my Defender

View attachment 892489

Wow that's bigger than the windscreen ??

 

[Cowabunga]

There are hundreds of thousands of people around the world very much not disappointed with a 70 series landcruiser.
Indeed the now 79 series ticks a lot of the boxes you have specified.

lengthy wide comfortable cab, electric windows 200+hp, heavy duty load bed, central door locking with keyless entry/start, double din head unit with apple/android/bluetooth connectivity and aux port, good noise insulation, rubber mats, air conditioning, good on and off road performance, full array of airbags, collapsible steering column and retractive seatbelt anchors, ABS brakes, USB socket, 12v cigarette socket, fast idle control and large tank capacity starting at 130litres.
Bearing in mind that they are coil sprung on the front and leaf at the back the ride in a modern 70 series is actually quite plush and they drive very nicely.

The addition of 1 inch spacers on the rear axle makes them track better off road and there are a myriad of accessories both factory and aftermarket available for them.

Again I’ll never know why Toyota haven’t made these available in UK. I don’t imagine it would affect Hilux sales particularly but even if they did they’d still be selling a Toyota product.

99% of them are in the Australian outback.
Never mind, the Grenadier pickup will be a far better vehicle and available here for about the same price as the LC would be. We’ll see how many part with their money for it.

 

[335d]

No - keep it simple. A/C is extra cost and can be done without - just open the window. So long as the heater is good enough to revive a hypothermic lamb in the passenger footwell, and keep the windows from misting up in the winter, that's enough.

Surely a/c is the best thing to keep the windows from misting up in the winter, especially if you have a wet dog or wet clothes. I never turn mine off. You want to remove the moisture from the air outside the cabin.

 

[Highland Mule]

Surely a/c is the best thing to keep the windows from misting up in the winter, especially if you have a wet dog or wet clothes. I never turn mine off. You want to remove the moisture from the air outside the cabin.

It drops the relative humidity of the air entering the cabin by cooling it down below the dew point. On a cold and dry day, it does nothing but burn extra fuel. Heating the air up to raise the dew point is what matters, and that doesn't need A/C

 

[335d]

It drops the relative humidity of the air entering the cabin by cooling it down below the dew point. On a cold and dry day, it does nothing but burn extra fuel. Heating the air up to raise the dew point is what matters, and that doesn't need A/C

If the dog is wet or your clothes are wet, it’s usually wet outside. If the air con isn’t on, hitting the button makes an instant change. long before the engine would be warm enough to heat the air

 

[Highland Mule]

If the dog is wet or your clothes are wet, it’s usually wet outside.

That's true, but heating the air up will raise the RH and give it plenty moisture carrying capacity without any need for pre-cooling. Dried air will obviously give it some more capacity, but at a much bigger cost than just increasing the airflow.

 

[Dukes Fit]

99% of them are in the Australian outback.
Never mind, the Grenadier pickup will be a far better vehicle and available here for about the same price as the LC would be. We’ll see how many part with their money for it.

Not so. While the largest single market for the 79 series is Australia, it accounts only for 10% of sales. The 79 series is sold in over 170 countries in nearly every market except North America and Europe. Apparently the 4.5 V8 doesn’t pass emissions (despite the same unit being available as twin turbo in a 200 series Landcruiser)

There is word that the 4.5 V8 is going to be phased out of production in favour of possibly a V6 or in-line 6, perhaps then Toyota will introduce it to the European market, it would make sense as they build the 79 in Portugal.

Despite being a confirmed Land Rover follower (I think the Discovery is the best all round vehicle there is) I do believe that the 79 series Landcruiser is a much better utility vehicle than a Defender and would probably be a safer bet than the Grenadier for at least the first 5 years.

@Cowabunga do you have any first hand practical experience of a modern 79 series?

 

[Cowabunga]

Not so. While the largest single market for the 79 series is Australia, it accounts only for 10% of sales. The 79 series is sold in over 170 countries in nearly every market except North America and Europe. Apparently the 4.5 V8 doesn’t pass emissions (despite the same unit being available as twin turbo in a 200 series Landcruiser)

It is not the same unit. The 200 series was emissionised to tier 4 but I don't believe they ever developed that to tier5 or 6.

There is word that the 4.5 V8 is going to be phased out of production in favour of possibly a V6 or in-line 6, perhaps then Toyota will introduce it to the European market, it would make sense as they build the 79 in Portugal.

Despite being a confirmed Land Rover follower (I think the Discovery is the best all round vehicle there is) I do believe that the 79 series Landcruiser is a much better utility vehicle than a Defender and would probably be a safer bet than the Grenadier for at least the first 5 years.

@Cowabunga do you have any first hand practical experience of a modern 79 series?

Yes the V8 diesel is being phased out at the same time as the 200 series is being discontinued. They are no longer competitive in any way I'm afraid and way overdue for replacement. I believe that there will be a 150 series replacement that will cover the two old range's space in the market.
Modern 79 series is a misnomer, just as calling a post 1995 LR Defender 'modern' is or was. It is an anachronism that is at home in open cast mines and very few other environments. With the might of Toyota, they could easily emissionise the V8 if they wanted to but they will not attempt to sell it in Europe or even N America, because they know that it wouldn't sell, for different reasons. I've seen the 79 but have not driven one, but unless you have been to Australia or to a larger open cast mine recently, not many have.
They will not try and sell the current model here even if they fitted a compliant engine.
Until now, Toyota didn't even sell the 2.8 200hp engine in the HiLux here. Only the weedy 2.4 150hp. In fact the 2.8 is only being introduced later in July and only on the Invincible, top model as I understand it.

 

[andybk]

99% of them are in the Australian outback.
Never mind, the Grenadier pickup will be a far better vehicle and available here for about the same price as the LC would be. We’ll see how many part with their money for it.

genedier will need bomb proof reliability , thats the main selling point of toyota , especially second hand which keeps new prices up , is the bmw engine or the drive train up to the challenge , that will make or break any new entrant ie ask yourself ,would the taliban be happy to put a machine gun in the back and beat it to destruction ?

 

[Cowabunga]

genedier will need bomb proof reliability , thats the main selling point of toyota , especially second hand which keeps new prices up , is the bmw engine or the drive train up to the challenge , that will make of break any new entrant ie ask yourself would the taliban be happy to put a machine gun in the back and beat it to destruction

It will be ten year or more before these filter down to the Taliban. It worries me not one jot what they use, but it is mostly HiLux that I see on the box.
They use a very well proven BMW engine, a ZF gearbox that is built in the millions and fitted to all kinds of vehicles from Rolls Royce to Amarok. Engineered by Steyr Daimler Puch for the ultimate off-road durability apparently. The proof will be in the pudding.

 

[stewart]

It will be ten year or more before these filter down to the Taliban. It worries me not one jot what they use, but it is mostly HiLux that I see on the box.
They use a very well proven BMW engine, a ZF gearbox that is built in the millions and fitted to all kinds of vehicles from Rolls Royce to Amarok. Engineered by Steyr Daimler Puch for the ultimate off-road durability apparently. The proof will be in the pudding.

Toyota have sold over 10 million Landcruisers in one form or another, their reliability is legendary, which is the main reason they are used in Australia, Africa and the Middle East, you just cannot afford to be stuck in the middle of nowhere with a breakdown, we still have our old 100 series that has done 700,000 kms, there would not be too many vehicles that are still going strong after covering that distance.
Bolting parts from different manufactures together in the hope of producing a decent vehicle does not bode well for the Grenadier, there may well be a niche market for them, but this would be limited to mainly the UK, the rest of the world will continue to go with the tried and tested reliable Toyotas.